I'm sorry if it's bad form randomly replying to posts from a while back, and that I'm posting in response to a random comment rather than the original thread...Obviously I'm new here, and if I'm stuffing up any sort of protocol , please correct me. I was really struck by the the question of mental illness to the woman claiming to be psychic. I'm pretty sure that when someone used to say "I can speak to dead people" it was pretty normal to reply "You're crazy!" and people don't really do that anymore....While I don't really want to bring back judgmental finger-pointing (I really don't think emotional accusations solve much), I DO think there's a correlation. While some may say 'duh! You must be crazy to believe this stuff!' I think the link between believing yourself to have 'special powers' and mental health, is worth delving into. I've had a lot of friends (I say 'friends'...I mean people I've hung out with for one reason or another) claiming to have psychic abilities and while I never believed them, I wasn't only respectful to their beliefs, I also quietly waited for a show of this ability. I never pressed them, but despite their 'abilities' never really felt like they related to me at all (which, quite frankly, if you're psychic and we're all 'connected', shouldn't be too damn hard) and I sure as hell never saw any evidence despite remaining in touch with some of these people for a number of years and actually bluntly telling one I didn't believe she was what she said. The thing is, after more than a decade of either talking to the same old weirdos or meeting new ones, I saw the pattern. These people were lonely, struggled with self-esteem issues, went though suicidal periods, and were unemployed - and faced long-term unemployment without either a miracle or further education. Now, I'm not suggesting that's a quick-fit formula - this is only my narrow experience. However, there's always a focus on why people go to see psychics - I think the question of why people believe they're psychic is equally important. I think it's generally similar psychology (vulnerability, loneliness, helplessness) and somehow drawing this to the public's attention might encourage people to think a little more critically.... Sorry for hijacking this old thread, but your conversation with 'Gail' pushed a button....Btw, really enjoyed the original post.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I was really struck by the the question of mental illness to the woman claiming to be psychic. I'm pretty sure that when someone used to say "I can speak to dead people" it was pretty normal to reply "You're crazy!" and people don't really do that anymore....While I don't really want to bring back judgmental finger-pointing (I really don't think emotional accusations solve much), I DO think there's a correlation.
There is 100% a correlation, the problem is that religion in general, as turned things from someone hearing a voice must be crazy too, someone hearing a voice, it must be god, or it must be the dead"
So if you had a young child with mental health issues, the parents instead of admitting the child had a problem, they could say the child was special, spoke with god or something, often this would happen in less developed countries, you can look at places like India whenever a child is born with 4 legs due to a underdeveloped conjoined twin, they are instantly dubbed "God Boy" or something similar. So a lot of it can be put down to religion, and general ignorance of the causes of such things.
Now unfortunately in developed countries like the UK, when a child claims to hear a voice, or see something, the parent due to their own beliefs, instead of educating the child as to the truth, instead enables the delusion, and in some case feeds the mental illness.
I recently fell out with a friend of mine, who had worked as a medium in the past. She was talking to me and mentioned how her daughter had seen a man in her room in the night, and come down to tell her. Now instead of rushing up to see, calling the police etc, my former friend just told the girl "thats ok, dont worry about it" in other words she was telling the child that what she had seen was completely normal, when clearly it wasn't.
The child is 11 years old i think, so too old for imaginary friends.
I was very angry at what I deemed to be terrible parenting and the fact she was pushing her own delusions and beliefs on her child, and in turn I no longer speak to her.
While some may say 'duh! You must be crazy to believe this stuff!' I think the link between believing yourself to have 'special powers' and mental health, is worth delving into. I've had a lot of friends (I say 'friends'...I mean people I've hung out with for one reason or another) claiming to have psychic abilities and while I never believed them, I wasn't only respectful to their beliefs, I also quietly waited for a show of this ability. I never pressed them, but despite their 'abilities' never really felt like they related to me at all (which, quite frankly, if you're psychic and we're all 'connected', shouldn't be too damn hard) and I sure as hell never saw any evidence despite remaining in touch with some of these people for a number of years and actually bluntly telling one I didn't believe she was what she said. The thing is, after more than a decade of either talking to the same old weirdos or meeting new ones, I saw the pattern. These people were lonely, struggled with self-esteem issues, went though suicidal periods, and were unemployed - and faced long-term unemployment without either a miracle or further education.
I have yet to meet a single self proclaimed medium who did not have a history of abuse, mental illness, depression and so on.
I have met some who I have asked if they have ever had problems in the past, and they tell me no, their lives were normal, but always the more i delve the more i find out the truth.
There is a reason why so many male mediums are Gay, the reason is the psychological issues they have had growing up, the bullying, the feelings of being different, being disowned by their family in some cases, all the classic issues that Gay people suffer with, especially men, you will find that by "being psychic" suddenly they see themselves as being special, they see themselves as being better than the bullies, better than the people who abused them. The natural femininity they have helps them with their empathy towards others, and all these things added together help them cope, and then the more they get into it the more they delude themselves, and when the day comes when they realise that they are not really psychic, and that they have to "help things along" in readings, they do so by justifying what they do as helping people, as well as the shame and embarrassment of having to admit they are lying, they grew up lying to themselves and to their parents, so this lying thing is very easy for them, and they can take it into their life as a fake psychic.
And yes there are some generalisations in there, and I am not talking about all gay men. I am talking just about gay men who claim to be and work as psychics.
Now, I'm not suggesting that's a quick-fit formula - this is only my narrow experience. However, there's always a focus on why people go to see psychics - I think the question of why people believe they're psychic is equally important. I think it's generally similar psychology (vulnerability, loneliness, helplessness) and somehow drawing this to the public's attention might encourage people to think a little more critically...
Your points are all spot on and I agree with them.
The psychology of people who believe themselves to be psychic is often more fascinating than the actual claims they make.
Of course there are some psychics out there, like Derek Acorah, Gordon Smith, Colin Fry etc, who are 100% pure frauds, there is no delusion there.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I agree that some are consciously aware of exactly what they're doing and do it anyway because it's damn profitable - funny you should mention Derek Acorah and Colin Fry, because that's exactly who I would've pointed the finger at, as well as the guy who teamed up with them for a bit - for 3 mediums (I read with great interest the thread about him turning on the others, Ha!)
As for the 'crazies' though, it doesn't even necessarily have to be 'obvious' crazy stuff like hallucinations or voices, the people I knew, just mentioned they were psychic and didn't go into detail of seeing or hearing things. They fit really well into the description you gave of gay psychics, despite only one of them being gay - they were unsure of themselves and didn't feel like they 'fit' into the world (btw, I'm pretty sure all people feel this way at one point - it's called individuality - or 'the human condition' if you consider yourself philosophical - and not everyone feels the need to consider themselves psychic...) and they seemed to cling to the 'special power' idea exactly for the reason you outlined - it made their "I'm different" into "I'm special". I think also, in hindsight, they all just really really wanted to be 'liked' and as a lot of people do, they started believing that if they showed themselves to be 'special' in some way - rather than just trying to relate to people and spending quality time building relationships - people would admire them, and so, like them.
Bear with me, but I'm going to go off on a tangent now, and quickly tell the story of my grandmother who is not of sound mind, is frequently paranoid and takes out her paranoia on people around her through random aggression. I tried to get help for her and had a visit with her regular doctor, who informed me there wasn't much he could do - if there was any help for her, it had to start with her volunteering herself to medical staff as 'crazy and in need of assistance' - which, let's face it, no one would do ....I spoke with her about it some time later and tried to confront the fact that a lot of the things she said were irrational and she needed help. Apparently she'd spoken to the doctor, and the conclusion was that "if she believed in fairies at the bottom of the garden, who the hell cares, and why not just leave her to it?"
I bring this up, because the important question for anyone who's aware of depressed and unhappy people hiding behind the label of 'psychic' should be - is there anything I need to do about it, or is this just a personal illusion that doesn't affect other people? In my case, as far as I know, the people mentioned never went on to be 'professional psychics'. I don't really care that they think they 'know things', they can 'know' what they like. However when people turn pro and start charging for a service that is the product of their insecure delusion, we have a problem.
By the way, my grandmother has never claimed psychic ability, my concern for her was her aggression towards other people. The doctor never picked up on this (seriously, if someone told you to volunteer yourself into a psych assessment - would you really admit to randomly destroying things in your flat, calling emergency services for no reason, and just generally yelling at people for no reason?). I brought up this story, because I see parallels in this situation and the situation of people being 'psychic'. Yes I believe in giving people the freedom to believe in fairies at the bottom of their garden. This freedom is pending however, on NOT charging others to see such 'fairies' and NOT believing any 'orders' given by these fairies.
Also, I'd like to insert a disclaimer that I am by no means 'having a go' at people who are depressed, are suffering from any mental illness, or are gay. The points made in these posts are about the potential for confusion about 'self' to turn into a manipulative lie about spiritualism. Negotiating your way through life and getting to know yourself, as well as the world around you, is hard for everybody. My sister has been depressed through most of her adult life and recently came out as a lesbian. Since then, I have never seen her happier. I have another sister who has spent a lot of time being suicidal. Last time I saw her, she was doing well, but I never really know as she's a really private person. I'm actually currently seeing a counselor, for grief therapy. Being human, sometimes means being weak. Life is sometimes hard. I'm not superficially suggesting that problems easily dissipate with one or two visits to the doctor, I just cannot condone turning the grief/fear monsters in your head to a public lie and financial scam.
And...(there's so much to go on!) telling an 11 yr old girl that seeing men in her bedroom is 'normal' is SO FREAKIN DANGEROUS on so many levels!! Not just because she may be hallucinating and therefore have an underlying medical problem, but also because 'normalizing' 'strange men in her bedroom' frightens the hell out of me when I read article upon article about child sexual abuse and why children are reluctant to come forward!! I am NOT an expert in the topic so do not want to make ignorant fear-statements about an issue I don't know personally, but I've heard that children who are abused in any way always 'try' telling adults several times and sometimes they use a bit of creative license to say so - which doesn't mean they're lying, it just means the adults should pay some bloody attention! I don't know what the actual situation is here but mentioning a story about 'a man in the bedroom', could actually be a 'gentle' way a child probes to see how their information is processed - this determines how the child approaches telling the adult what the actual problem is.... Hope like hell it was just innocent story telling (I had crazy fantasies back in my day), but am angry at that sort of parenting...
I bring this up, because the important question for anyone who's aware of depressed and unhappy people hiding behind the label of 'psychic' should be - is there anything I need to do about it, or is this just a personal illusion that doesn't affect other people? In my case, as far as I know, the people mentioned never went on to be 'professional psychics'. I don't really care that they think they 'know things', they can 'know' what they like. However when people turn pro and start charging for a service that is the product of their insecure delusion, we have a problem.
Whenever someone tells me they believe they are psychic, the first question I always ask is "what did your doctor say when you told them that" and nearly every time they say they haven't been to a doctor, and that pretty much is the problem there.
Someone sees something, or hears something that clearly is not normal, and instead of instantly thinking maybe i have a serious problem, they decide to just become a medium and start charging people, or giving out advice or telling people things.
To me it is bizarre to think that being psychic is ever seen as being a normal thing, that hearing the dead is nothing to tell your doctor about. And that is the problem that society and TV has made it so that people with genuine mental illness are not only allowed but encouraged to consider themselves magical and even earn a living from it, without ever seeking medical help.
Remember 100% of psychics fail 100% of the time when the chance to cheat is removed in a credible scientific test.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Also, I'd like to insert a disclaimer that I am by no means 'having a go' at people who are depressed, are suffering from any mental illness, or are gay. The points made in these posts are about the potential for confusion about 'self' to turn into a manipulative lie about spiritualism. Negotiating your way through life and getting to know yourself, as well as the world around you, is hard for everybody. My sister has been depressed through most of her adult life and recently came out as a lesbian. Since then, I have never seen her happier. I have another sister who has spent a lot of time being suicidal. Last time I saw her, she was doing well, but I never really know as she's a really private person. I'm actually currently seeing a counselor, for grief therapy. Being human, sometimes means being weak. Life is sometimes hard. I'm not superficially suggesting that problems easily dissipate with one or two visits to the doctor, I just cannot condone turning the grief/fear monsters in your head to a public lie and financial scam.
I can understand people creating delusions as a way to cope with whatever problems they have, but turning that coping method into a way to earn a living, which in turn involves other people and can affect their lives, well that is dangerous
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
And...(there's so much to go on!) telling an 11 yr old girl that seeing men in her bedroom is 'normal' is SO FREAKIN DANGEROUS on so many levels!! Not just because she may be hallucinating and therefore have an underlying medical problem, but also because 'normalizing' 'strange men in her bedroom' frightens the hell out of me when I read article upon article about child sexual abuse and why children are reluctant to come forward!! I am NOT an expert in the topic so do not want to make ignorant fear-statements about an issue I don't know personally, but I've heard that children who are abused in any way always 'try' telling adults several times and sometimes they use a bit of creative license to say so - which doesn't mean they're lying, it just means the adults should pay some bloody attention! I don't know what the actual situation is here but mentioning a story about 'a man in the bedroom', could actually be a 'gentle' way a child probes to see how their information is processed - this determines how the child approaches telling the adult what the actual problem is.... Hope like hell it was just innocent story telling (I had crazy fantasies back in my day), but am angry at that sort of parenting...
Recently I read a piece on how toxic mould in a house or old building can create hallucinations and we all know that such moulds can be carcinogenic, so my first instinct if I was a parent or any caring person would be that if someone was reporting something out of the ordinary to have every possible explanation examined. Not just dismiss it because I want my kid to feel normal if she is psychic, its ridiculous and dangerous
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I'm sorry if it's bad form randomly replying to posts from a while back, and that I'm posting in response to a random comment rather than the original thread...Obviously I'm new here, and if I'm stuffing up any sort of protocol , please correct me. I was really struck by the the question of mental illness to the woman claiming to be psychic. I'm pretty sure that when someone used to say "I can speak to dead people" it was pretty normal to reply "You're crazy!" and people don't really do that anymore....While I don't really want to bring back judgmental finger-pointing (I really don't think emotional accusations solve much), I DO think there's a correlation. While some may say 'duh! You must be crazy to believe this stuff!' I think the link between believing yourself to have 'special powers' and mental health, is worth delving into. I've had a lot of friends (I say 'friends'...I mean people I've hung out with for one reason or another) claiming to have psychic abilities and while I never believed them, I wasn't only respectful to their beliefs, I also quietly waited for a show of this ability. I never pressed them, but despite their 'abilities' never really felt like they related to me at all (which, quite frankly, if you're psychic and we're all 'connected', shouldn't be too damn hard) and I sure as hell never saw any evidence despite remaining in touch with some of these people for a number of years and actually bluntly telling one I didn't believe she was what she said. The thing is, after more than a decade of either talking to the same old weirdos or meeting new ones, I saw the pattern. These people were lonely, struggled with self-esteem issues, went though suicidal periods, and were unemployed - and faced long-term unemployment without either a miracle or further education. Now, I'm not suggesting that's a quick-fit formula - this is only my narrow experience. However, there's always a focus on why people go to see psychics - I think the question of why people believe they're psychic is equally important. I think it's generally similar psychology (vulnerability, loneliness, helplessness) and somehow drawing this to the public's attention might encourage people to think a little more critically.... Sorry for hijacking this old thread, but your conversation with 'Gail' pushed a button....Btw, really enjoyed the original post.
