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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 14:03:50 GMT
i wasnt suggesting ALL muslims want to convert us... yes they can follow whatever religion they wish, but this country isnt a predominantly muslim country, and they should accept that...if they wont reveal their face to a busdriver then they should be able to understand why theyre not allowed on the bus...if they wanna kick up a stink about it..the british law should do something about it and ban viels from public ammenities...cos like duh, you dont know who's under the viel do you and they could be some nutter about to rob a bank or blow up a frikkin bus!!! i mean, he only asked her to show her face...she couldve given him a peep..know what i mean? theyre in england, sorry, and we're supposed to have some level of common sense in this country...altho thats gone rite up the swanny aint it...
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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 14:10:57 GMT
TRUTH is...people can follow whatever lifestyle they want...as long as they dont impose it on others....suggest ideas, evolve them..but dont kill people if they dont agree with you....easy
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Post by shazzz on Nov 12, 2006 15:06:44 GMT
Im certianly not defending her
The point i was stating was perhaps she is BRITISH herself
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Post by lowrider on Nov 12, 2006 15:42:15 GMT
Im certianly not defending her The point i was stating was perhaps she is BRITISH herself Fair point Shazz
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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 15:45:43 GMT
Im certianly not defending her The point i was stating was perhaps she is BRITISH herself but my point is that her religion and her reasons ARE'NT british..... would enforcing christianity in the middle east make any difference to the way you'd be treated if you'd been born there to begin with? no, you'd have ur nads cut off same as everyone else..
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Post by claire on Nov 12, 2006 18:12:10 GMT
i have to agree with steve, there are too many instances like this these days, if i went to another country and there were certain guidelines to be followed, i would gladly do so. The problem stems from people expecting to behave exactly how they want, with little or no thought about other people, its completeley disrespectful. That lady obviously knows that getting on a bus, and not showing her face is a stupid thing to do, given the situation we have over here, she knows how paranoid we all are, and though it may not be her fault, she should understand why it was something that needed to be done. Its all about respect at the end of the day, but it seems we have to show muslims respect, while they get away with showing us little or none at all, and it makes my blood boil it really does. And it needs to stop, and soon.
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Post by lilacearthwitch on Nov 12, 2006 18:34:20 GMT
I agree Claire. My Muslim run corner shop has a note in the window saying please remove helmets and hoods before entering but nothing about veils. Okay not all helmet and hood wearing folk are gun toting thugs about to rob you and nor are people who wear veils but how long will it be before someone has this idea of wearing a veil and then goes and holds up the off licence because we have to respect muslims desire to wear whatever they like. It should apply to everyone regardless of what religion they are. If you need to show your face for whatever reason then people should do it.
And anyway, can I ask a question without being an offensive racist or a narrow minded pig. Do these woman wear the veil because they choose to or are they being forced to do so by asian elders or their menfolk. Are they doing it on religious grounds or simply to make a statement about being separate. When a fuss gets kicked up about the veil its us whites who stand accused of being intolerant and stirring up race hate when in fact its the muslims themselves. I agree that not all muslims are the same but surely now the time as come for common sense to prevail.
Like whilst I was shopping in town one lady said hi to me from under her veil. I had no bloody idea who it was so just had to say hello out of politeness.
I have a muslim lady as a friend who married a white british guy who converted to Islam. When I asked her why she went against the wishes of her family and chose not to marry an asian, she informed me in a rather matter of fact tone and told me that she would not marry someone of her own kind because of how her brothers treated her and their wives. In her family the woman were treated just short of slaves, had to speak with spoken to, fetch and carry and have no opinions or thoughts of their own.
That sound more like the oppression of woman than a religion but each to their own
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Post by claire on Nov 12, 2006 18:37:51 GMT
i dont know why they wear those veils, i would like to!
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Post by whitewolf on Nov 12, 2006 18:51:50 GMT
my short scary one wants me to wear a veil. Perhaps being ugly has something to do with it.
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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 18:58:07 GMT
you say each to their own Lilac and thats a very good point..do these opressed women actually have a choice in the matter and are they happy with the situation? obviously not in the case of the lady you talked about, altho she still ended up converting her husband anyway, heheh its obviously a section of the muslim community who enforce these thoughts and beliefs into women and treat them like slaves... more of them should rebel against it cos the only way the opression can take place is if they let it happen...maybe they have the fear of torture and damnation ground into them aswell....and they want us to live like that? yeah woteva! each to their own indeed... stand up to the opression sistas, have a happy life, you knows it makes sense
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Post by whitewolf on Nov 12, 2006 19:04:04 GMT
but its a double edged sword for some of these women. the husband may say wear it, the country may say no. or vica versa. but i am very interested to know how many of the women actually wear it by choice. I do feel we have been walking the multi cultural road for some time now, but withut seeming like a racist of any knid. i actually feel i am in a minority group. Perahps one day we will be fighting for certain rights, ones that existrd years ago.
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Post by purplechampers on Nov 12, 2006 19:15:50 GMT
How on earth did the people in this guy's tribunal manage to twist it into being a racial issue? If a white person tried it when wearing a balaclava, the issue wouldn't even have come up! It had nothing to do with race,it was a matter of whether the individual had a right to use the pass, and I'd be surprised if the terms of owning one wouldn't have been written somewhere.
If the bus driver had been muslim (I'll assume he wasn't) would he have made the same decision? He should have done, as it was his job!
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Post by looby on Nov 12, 2006 19:56:37 GMT
As far as I know the decision to wear the veil or not depends on the individuals interpretation of the writings of the Koran. Something to do with not making themselves open to men looking at them and encouraging unwanted attention or something along these lines. There doesn't seem to be any definite rules on whether they wear it or not. I think it is supposed to be their choice but it could be that it is their families, husbands etc that make the choice for them. It is only in the presence of men they have to wear it. Some of them just wear the long robes without the veils.
I work as a midwife and we have muslim women who come in to deliver. They are usually accompanied by female relatives and very rarely their husbands. The husbands usually visit following the birth of the baby. Even if sometimes the woman does have the husband present they still keep themselves well covered and do not want their husband's to see them undressed. I often wonder how they get pregnant in the first place!! They also usually request only to be looked after by female carers but this sometimes is not possible as very often the only doctors around are male. If they need medical attention and this is the case then they accept that this has to be and do allow it.
The main problem I find is that many of these women do not speak english or speak very little, some of them have been in this country for years. This raises a lot of issues as we have to get proper consent for any procedures we carry out and obviously some of them are very intimate. Very difficult to try and explain what you want to do!!
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Post by lilacearthwitch on Nov 12, 2006 20:07:41 GMT
My friend may have converted her husband but he is not strict, not oppresive and lets his wife have a voice and choice whether to wear the veil or not. She chose not to and I am glad she doesn't cover up because she is quite stunning both in looks and personality. In these trouble times I do think people should show more consideration and accept that there is a definite threat to our safety. If for security reasons someone is asked to uncover their faces then they should do it without question. If anyone is creating divisions its the PC brigade, human rights lawyers and certain parties within Blair's government who encourage these stupid cases to reach tribunal i.e the school teaching assistant who refused to uncover her face. Human beings are sociable creatures and interact not only through voice but facial expressions and eye contact. How the bloody hell can you do that with someone who is sat there with a blanket over their head.
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Post by lilacearthwitch on Nov 12, 2006 20:10:36 GMT
Wear the veil if you must but please let common sense prevail. If you are a teacher, need to verify your identity then yes you should be obliged to remove it.
Things are getting more and more sillier these days
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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 20:19:52 GMT
bring back common sense..theres life in the old dog yet i'm sure..
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Post by purplechampers on Nov 12, 2006 20:30:28 GMT
Now steve, don't be ageist. That's a dog of advanced years!!
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 12, 2006 20:30:40 GMT
I liked that photo of Pakistan in the paper the other day, it showed modern muslim women walking down the street in westernized clothes.
Under that photo they had a photo of a st in Birmingham i think, and full of veil wearing women.
The reason women are wearing veils and making a big deal out of it, is so they can cause controversy and trouble, and sue people etc.
Some of the muslims in this country are like 1980's pakistan, and the muslims in Pakistan are the forward thinking modern ones.
It really is a backwards society sometimes
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Post by steve on Nov 12, 2006 20:49:48 GMT
Now steve, don't be ageist. That's a dog of advanced years!! ah yes, sorry for causing offense, dont sue me! ;D
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Post by lilacearthwitch on Nov 12, 2006 21:03:04 GMT
I saw that picture too. As for controversy, if I chose to walk down the street in my birthday suite that would cause more controversy than the veil wearing muslims. I would get arrested for starters.
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