Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 14, 2006 22:29:04 GMT
I have to say, you have all opened my eyes to a lot of of crap that is out there.
And i hope to open your eyes to a lot more closer to home too.
I was very conscience and always have been, of what information you should give to a medium.
You shouldnt have to give ANY information to a medium. That is one of teh reasons Kendra told Tonys researchers to piss off when they phoned her asking for info to give to Tony.
He did not ask any questions of me.
Psychics have clever ways of getting info out of you without you realising. If he told you to only answer Yes or No, then he is a fraud, this is the top thing needed for a good cold read.
He told me somethings that were very correct, and some that were wrong, but he was quite happy that he was wrong.
Why was he happy when he was wrong? lol Very strange. The fact he was wrong at all should make you suspicious.
At the end he asked me if there was anyone I wanted to hear from that had not come through. I said yes. He then asked me for their Christian name only.
Why are you giving him information, you are feeding him without even realising
I told him. I then sat there and listened to him describe, when and how this person died, as it was in quite strange circumstances that he would not have known.
How do you know he would not have known? The fact is that you were part of the circle, you had been to seminars etc.
Let me ask you a question, have you ever heard of "The Blue Book"
He then told me how old this person was, and described how he looked.
Give us an example of how he told you, the words he used etc
I promise the only thing I gave him was the first name. He could not have known details of his death as he did.
How can a man make the statue of liberty disapear? Its a trick, YOU do not know how it was done, therefore you believe it is real.
We will show you how it was done, and then you will realise Tony is a fraud
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
It's important to tape these things where possible. By analysing the tape later, and maybe even transcribing it, you realise how much you give away and how much they get wrong. Have a look, if you'd like to, at www.badpsychics.com/au/modules/news/article.php?storyid=59 and read the transcription of a perfomance given by David Thompson with some comments included. Some of the tried and true cold reading techniques are clearly evident there, although he's a very bad cold reader.
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2006 22:41:57 GMT by skeptomatic
I am sorry guys, but he just gave me his age and gave me the description of the accident. Richard has never come through at circle, and I have not given information about him at all. I have a number of young deaths that I keep very close to my chest for this reason and this reason alone.
I need proof just like the next person. I have been taught to be cautious! I have yet to hear from 2 other people in the 'spirit world' that I wish to hear from , and again, apart from close family and friends to those people, who live a couple of hundred miles away and have never met either Tony or Tracy, no-one knows about their deaths or my relation to them.
However many tricks up his sleeve, unless he knew he was going to read for me (which would mean he was psychic as it was not planned) and then he rang the local morg/registrar to my cousins home, he would not have known the details that he did. My faith, in Tony, so far has not been swayed!
If you know how this cold reading lark works, and you were so good at your training JD, tell me, from the name Richard, how did my cousin die?
Skeptomatic, in reply to you, thank you by the way for your response, I would say that I would agree, I would normally have a reading taped. I know that Tracy tapes all her readings. However the circumstances of this one were rather last minute.
Unless there is a conspiracy in Essex to make me believe then I have to trust that this was just the circumstances dictating. I am not that popular for a group of mediums to get together to decide who is reading and don't tape it so she doesn't know we're faking it kind of syndrome.
I have to agree with one of my all time idols, Bono. He mentioned in one of his books once that it was better to trust people and you may get burnt a couple of times in your life, than live worrying that you will get burnt, but live without trust.
We can't tell you, Hotchic: we would need to discuss it with you and do some fishing: then possibly make an educated guess. You told him the person's name was Richard, and I know he was your cousin, so I can take a guess that he was around your age: no idea how old you are - maybe late 20s/early 30s? You've said he died in unusual circumstances so I would rule out suicide or natural causes - so a freak accident? Probably not a car - maybe a work place accident - though something tells me it could have been an accident in the course of having fun - like a parachute accident? I'd say he was medium to tall in height and of medium build with light brown hair and hazel-blue eyes. Somehow, because he's called 'Richard' and not 'Dick' or 'Rick' I imagine him as youngish, probably with a good education, and for some strange reason a typical anglo-saxon in appearance. I guess a lot of cold reading must also be clutching at stereotypes!
How did I do? Pretty badly probably; but then I haven't had the advantage of watching your body language and those unspoken clues you unknowingly give out to cold readers. I'm just using guess work and demographics and imagination.
By the way I am sorry for your loss and regret any distress this guessing game might have caused. Certainly not my intention.
I then sat there and listened to him describe, when and how this person died, as it was in quite strange circumstances that he would not have known. He then told me how old this person was, and described how he looked.
To me this confirms the cold reading explanation.
If Richard came through do you think he would spend this absolutely precious time (if it were real) telling you what he looked like, how he died, how old he was, etc.?
You already know all that (!)
This is all about confirmation not information.
I've seen this occur many times. A person's mother (or whoever) 'comes through' and uses their connection from the 'afterlife' telling their son/daughter what they used to look like - why?
Why don't they pass some useful information over or interact somehow?
This confirmatory information only serves one purpose: to convince the client of the medium's ability to 'connect'.
It's a ruse, but a very effective one. Watch out for how often people are convinced by it.
The way I saw it was that was his confirmation. The odd thing that had happened I mean, in his death. That was not his message. Again, I know his surname, so I would not need that either.
Tony had talked to me about another man, who was also a cousin so by him describing how Richard looked, as he was also quite different looking, told me that it was not the first cousin.
I do understand what you are saying about cold reading, and I do not deny that many mediums probably practise it. However where I practise mediumship, we more often than not do it from platform and have to give all the information we get and then place it with someone. Then the message ends. We do not ask any questions and we do not continue afterwards, we just leave it with the person it is for. If we get the wrong person we just ask if anyone understands the information and then we sit.
Tony had talked to me about another man, who was also a cousin so by him describing how Richard looked, as he was also quite different looking, told me that it was not the first cousin.
Why couldn't Tony tell you which cousin it was?
You do realise that in an instance like this it's you who's supplying the meaning to the psychic's words - he's not actually giving you any information.
This is one way that the client gives the psychic information without them realising that that's what's happening.
If we get the wrong person we just ask if anyone understands the information and then we sit.
This is the same process except that instead of giving one client choices from which they will validate the one that they most identify with, a reading is given to many and it is deemed accurate for the person who can most identify with it!
Yes I understand, but when the information is so specific I then cannot disprove it.
When I give a reading, in a group like that, and then place it, with what I think is accuracy, I do this in good faith. I know you obviously don't know me, and for all any of you know I could be Derek Acorah!! (I assure you I am not) However, I have been doing this mediumship thing for approximately a year. No one has taught me a trick, I have never taken money for it, so I am not up on the platform just to make a fool of myself. Therefore, if what I have said, however daft some of it may sound, (and trust me sometimes you don't want to say what you get as you feel completely stupid), means something to someone and it hasn't cost them anything, it is not harming their health, then what is the problem.
I am not 'ripping anyone off', I just have a keen interest in it and wonder why I experience various feelings, and images when I am not asking for it - if that makes sense.
Tony did not know either men were my cousins. I never told him. I still haven't. It is only retelling the story on here that I have said it was my cousin.
Last Edit: Dec 19, 2006 18:05:46 GMT by skeptomatic
I fail to see how if a medium gives an " accurate" description of a loved one it is a "ruse". Mediums are attacked for being wishy washy then put down if a description is used. When did sceptics become the rulers and have decided what is acceptable as a message. It seems they want there cake and to eat it. It also seems that any sceptic can decide a cold reading occurred via a third hand description without any transcript. In other words the mind is made up and ALL mediums cold read if they are accurate. In which case i fail to see why anyone should bother entering into a debate with a sceptic, as there minds are already made up what ever they hear. The only goal despite the many prostrations of open mildness is to convince everyone that they are right.
You can learn cold reading from a book or you can learn it by trial and error (without realising it).
From what I have seen, those who believe they are developing their psychic skills are, in reality, simply learning cold reading by honing in on what gets the best results.
What's the harm?
Most of the time there's none; but some people will suffer a tragic loss (for example) and if they've been seduced by the idea of receiving messages from the afterlife they may turn to psychics at their time of tragedy.
This can be psychologically very harmful. It can interfere with the grieving process to the point where the person becomes trapped in it, they can become psychologically dependent on psychics, and I've come across a couple of cases where people have been given 'proof' that the afterlife exists after their loss and so have gone on to commit suicide.
Irrational beliefs have their consequences - no matter how harmless they may appear.