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Post by benvolio on Apr 8, 2007 14:51:39 GMT
But No-one is arguing that these things can't be done via magic tricks. Just that there may be other ways they may be done. As the old saying goes 'There is more than one way to skin a fox'...Not advocating this by the way... If you had the power to read minds, why use magicians methods to show it ? Geller says he bends spoons by the power flowing from his fingertips. One of his usual lines is "look I'm hardly touching it !" OK, so lay the spoon on the table and lightly pass your fingertips across it. Bend it in a way no magician could do, but in a way you could if you are genuine. He's a trickster, always was, always will be. A good magician would come up with a way that would equate with any way Gellar did it. You either Believe,disbelieve or like myself...sit on the fence until more evidence either way is in. I do believe though that many people.(A little aside here) 1) Equate 'sitting on the fence' with indescision,so they have to go one way or the other...and disregard many facts. 2) Believe that answers must be found now,and if the answers are not in the here and now and have not been already found by science therefore the phenomona cannot exist and must be fake. This is the Science knows all NOW position and is frankly ludicrous.
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Post by hkev on Apr 8, 2007 14:57:28 GMT
A good magician would come up with a way that would equate with any way Gellar did it. No. If Geller did something with just the power of his mind no magician would be able to duplicate it without using props. How many times does a man have to be caught cheating before we close the book on him ?
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Post by benvolio on Apr 8, 2007 15:19:14 GMT
A good magician would come up with a way that would equate with any way Gellar did it. No. If Geller did something with just the power of his mind no magician would be able to duplicate it without using props. How many times does a man have to be caught cheating before we close the book on him ? Eh? Firstly let's say Gellar could move a spoon across a table.A magician could replicate this. But magicians do use props.ie.hook for bending key as you mentioned. And how would that be provable that he is just using his mind...It would not be. What about hypnotism...He could be Hypnotizing the audience,etc,etc...Won't go on as you can see where I am going here. Paranormal phenomena can ONLY be proved in the negative at the moment..This creates an uneven plateau and is unfair on the subject under test or scrutiny. As for being caught cheating...I have googled the videos and frankly find them unconvincing. Were they to zoom in to Gellars hands then more could be seen.I only see Gellar manipulating the spoon and not necessarily bending it. I want much more conclusive evidence than this...As Randi and his like alwys demand hard and conclusive evidence.Why should I not do the same...Hell I am not going to dismiss something through the medium of an unclear video.
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Post by qwerty on Apr 8, 2007 23:56:39 GMT
[/quote] Your "mime" argument is the stupidest argument I have heard on this forum (And that is quite an achievement). [/quote]
No, YOU are the stupidest arguement on this forum.
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Post by qwerty on Apr 9, 2007 0:04:42 GMT
You don't seem to get it, do you.
Just because you have found a method to bend metal, does not mean that Geller is using your method.
Having 20 clowns in a pub all bending metal using similar methods doesn't mean that Geller is using those methods.
FYI, I think Geller is a fake.
I think he uses magic tricks to bend metal.
However, I don't have proof.
Remember the word proof? That thing that Skeptics demand of psychics?
Where's your proof that Geller is using your magic tricks to bend the spoon ?
Seems like the IQ and reasoning skills of skeptics is dropping daily.
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Post by Kim on Apr 9, 2007 0:05:37 GMT
There really is no need to be so agressive!
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Post by qwerty on Apr 9, 2007 0:09:51 GMT
And by the way Kev, can you cover up? I don't want to see your face.
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Post by hkev on Apr 9, 2007 0:11:03 GMT
You don't seem to get it, do you. I think he uses magic tricks to bend metal. However, I don't have proof. Remember the word proof? That thing that Skeptics demand of psychics? Where's your proof that Geller is using your magic tricks to bend the spoon ? Seems like the IQ and reasoning skills of skeptics is dropping daily. I have seen him on film drop his hand below a table and bend the spoon. That was all the proof I need. Even someone with a low IQ can understand that.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 9, 2007 8:58:39 GMT
As James Randi once said, If Geller is using psychic abilities to bend spoons then he is doing it the hard way.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 9, 2007 9:01:42 GMT
But what does having 20 or so idiots all bend spoons at the same time using simple magicians tricks actually prove? I didnt make the video, Richard Saunders did, someone I am sure you know. Why on earth are you insulting me for? I am a big fan of Geller as everyone knows. You are just a rude troll, and luckily as Admin on this forum I dont have to put up with abusive noobs like yourself. So good bye.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 9, 2007 9:07:14 GMT
Also I have yet to hear an explanation of the 'watch stopping/starting' that adequately explains the phenomonena. Banachek did the same thing, as has Ali Ross. Both have been on TV/Radio, and told people to hold broken watches and so on, they got the same results as Geller, yet both are magicians. It is as has alreadybeen described on this thread. Old watches when picked up, will sometimes start working again, and if you have a large enough group of people doing it, then it will work simply by chance. It wasnt faked, just Geller using an opportunity for publicity. He has done the same before with football matches, claims he made the ball move before someone took a penalty. ALL of these claims come after the event, I love Geller, i think he is great, but he is not a real psychic.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 9, 2007 9:11:21 GMT
As for the watches.I must disagree that most old watches are jammed...Most have just wound down though some are 'gummed up' with oil residue,where the oil has dried up ...Holding in hand and shouting start will not make them restart. Thats why he ALWAYS tells people to wind the watches up first! Have you ever actually watched Geller? It is pretty obvious how he does things. Erm they can and do when Geller tells you to wind them up. Thats teh first thing he says. If you are doing such a stunt surely you would talk about it on the news BEFORE you did it, so people could watch I can explain and already have EVERYTHING Geller claims and has done. Big Ben - Explained Watches restarted - Explained. Anything else you want to know, i would be happy to fill in for you.
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Post by benvolio on Apr 9, 2007 9:18:03 GMT
Thanks Jon... Have not...to be honest looked into Gellars claims as much as I would have liked.
Wil google around a bit as well as take what you have given me into consideration.
I am NOT a 'jump in with both feet' believer nor the reverse. If there is a glut of evidence that labels him a fake then I will find it.
Fakes.In any line of work.Should be exposed.
p.s. Not aware of the winding up bit,does sound suss.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 10, 2007 9:11:53 GMT
Thanks Jon... Have not...to be honest looked into Gellars claims as much as I would have liked. Wil google around a bit as well as take what you have given me into consideration. I am NOT a 'jump in with both feet' believer nor the reverse. If there is a glut of evidence that labels him a fake then I will find it. Fakes.In any line of work.Should be exposed. p.s. Not aware of the winding up bit,does sound suss. I remember when Ali Ross did it, for a moment when thousands of people started ringing in saying their watches had started he did question himself for a moment as the effect is so powerful. But Geller ALWAYS tells people to wind up the watches first. Like i said I think Geller is great, i am a big fan, but his tricks are very old, and very easy to see through even for a very amateur magician.
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Post by hellyp on Apr 11, 2007 10:12:38 GMT
I think that was well deserved, Jon. It's perfectly possible to diagree with someone's opinion without resorting to personal insults. People generally do that when they're either too thick to think of a relevant comeback, or realise they've just lost the argument.
Edit: sorry, this refers to you ejecting qwerty, just to clarify.
Just on the picture thing I mentioned before - what is the method he uses for getting his drawings exactly the same in their ratios?
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 11, 2007 17:29:09 GMT
Just luck usually, he doesnt always do it either. The point is that generally people draw in the middle of a piece of paper and at similar sizes, if Uri can see that they are of a similar size he points it out
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Post by hkev on Apr 12, 2007 19:10:25 GMT
James Randi views some film taken during the famous SRI Tests(1972/73) of Geller entertaining the scientists who were so impressed by him at the time:
"By surreptitious means I managed to obtain a copy of the last half of the film. How the great minds at SRI failed to tumble to the simple tricks Geller performed for them , I cannot understand.
Geller is shown waving him hands about over a simple compass. We are solemnly assured that his hands have been carefully examined with a probe to be sure he has no magnets concealed. Nonetheless, the compass needle deflects ! But it moves, not in rhythm with his hand movements but in time with his head, and only when his head approaches the device ! Open wide, Uri. What's that magnet doing in your mouth ?
Then Uri treats us to some spoon bending. The spoon bending trick is shown in the film in five segments. In each we see the Israeli wonder stroking for all he's worth, turning the spoons every which way and concentrating mightily. And every time a segment ends (to wind the camera or put a new film in) the spoon returns to the screen with a new bend in it !
I photographed the spoon in profile from the screen at the beginning and end of each segment. Guess what ? There is no change whatever in the bend while the camera is running, but considerable change when no film is being shot - that is to say, while no one is looking.
The film ends by showing an array of silverware all bent by Geller , but the narrator tells us he is not sure how all of these got bent. I think I know."
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