Hi Kensington? I view sceptics as normal human beings who have differing opinions to what seems to be the majority of people in the world. I have read on here that sceptics are quite happy to be proved wrong which is fair in my mind. Up till now, no-one has been able to do that. I personally opted out of religion at the age of 15 but I respect the people who chose to believe in their respective gods. I happen to believe that religion is indoctrination when young. People on here tend to think for themselves, rationalise everything, nothing wrong with that. My only concern is when believers are ridiculed for their belief, regardless on what it is. Like you all, I dislike frauds but as I have said before all of the people that visit mediums/ churches are adults, they should be allowed to make up their own minds, advise yes, deride no. On the other side, I find it strange that believers will not be bothered to listen to rational thoughts on the subject, do not want to know. But that is human beings, all different.
Yes Fluffet, I hear what you say, well read it. I don't think dementia has got me yet, having said that I have socks with the days of the week on each one on them, I put the wrong ones on over the weekend, to tease my grandchildren. I conned my 6yr old grandchild, to get out of MY chair, you know the way, told that there was something interesting in the garden, my daughter was a bit cross with me. Later on my birthday, we all had a big meal out, I end up playing hit in the grounds of the pub, too big for me to coral her, I tried to con her into coming close, but she had learnt my wicked tricks. She wont let that happen again. ;D as you may of gathered, I am still a big kid. The reason I mention that, in my life, I have been conned, but I learnt from it. People that still continue to visit mediums must get something from it.
Apology for putting this on here, I can never seem to start a new thread.
In the Mail today. Police are being trained to use hypnosis on suspects.Tom Silver a celebrity stage hypnotist, notorious for measmerising (Franz Mesmer) laides to experience orgasms when shaking a mans hand The police say it will not stand up in court. £1,500 cut price course. Putting the suspect into a receptive brain wave state makes it liklier that the truth will come out.
Pail Mc Kenna did some thing similar on a tatty American TV show, but he used "Imagination"
Thankfully it says at the bottom of the article: "Furthermore, the training is not funded by Cheshire Constabulary."
Evidence shows that people are no better at remembering under hypnosis than when they're not hypnotised; but evidence also shows that people can be very prone to suggestion and forming false memories under hypnosis (through imagery etc.) so this really does seem like a very silly move by the police involved.
Information gleaned under hypnosis would be no more reliable or trustworthy than information given by a psychic (which is why such information can't be used in court).
Still, as long as these guys are wasting their own money on this nonsense and not taxpayers' money, then it's their own lookout.
Yo better not read this Jon, it will only upset you. ;D Hi Fluffet Doing what I do I am aware of when someone is not in their 'normal' waking state. Whether you believe it or not, with just talking I can get someone into an altered state, apparently asleep, (hypnos, sleep) Just to explain what I do, briefly. I get them to focus on all aspects of the body, then a guided visualisation, a beach, a garden. Sometimes, long before I finish, they are in this relaxed state. A guided meditation is just hypnosis without the deepeners, some still go very deep. In yoga, people sit quietly to get into a relaxed state. Daydreaming, staring out of a window, engrossed in a film, before you go to sleep and just before you wake up are all said to be altered states. My observations with mediums is that they all use different methods of getting themselves into this relaxed state. When I first learnt about hypnosis, I was told that we all have what was called. "A critical sensor", in an altered state, this is turned off, enabling to accept things that the conscious mind might not? ( does it allow them to tune into the sitters mind?) telepathy? Mediums use different methods, (unknowingly) to get into this state. A crystal ball, rune stones, tarot cards, palmistry, among others, all used, to my mind, to focus their attention. One medium I know jumps up and down before facing the public. Which brings to mind, the whirling dervishes, The American Indian, the ones that throw their head about so much which enables the to stick skewers through their face, or the fakirs lying on a bed of nails, all in an altered state. (Hypnosis is used for major operations) same thing. Just my theories of course.
The induction I described above is what I use to help people stop smoking etc.
You mentioned shutting out noise, the strange is that some of my clients have said that their hearing becomes more acute, able to hear things that was not aware of, I don't mean woo stuff but in this case, a lawn mower a long way away.
I am sure that we all have experienced the situation where we think what we know someone else is thinking. They do say that we take in more than two million bits of information per second, (don't ask me how they know that) so when you look at someone, you are taking in much more than you consciously know. Is this what mediums do, I don't know? .
Thanks for explaining your take on it Terry , i do know many mediums and spiritualists practise meditation of some form or other and likewise also use something (prop) or some action to focus or perhaps more importantly for the sitter to focus on so it does seem to be a common theme in their work. What i feel is that perhaps there is also a common theme with what you do and mediums do in that the people who come to see either both have a common strong desire to acheive something or gain information, id imagine no one goes to a hypnotist or a medium to come away with nothing therefore that strong desire usually marred by constraints and other worries etc is allowed a focus it otherwise isnt afforded in day to day life for them , perhaps the relaxed state and focus aids them in a way to allow emotions and feelings they normally dont allow to surface to come to to the fore be it an inner strength they werent aware they had or a weakness they normally contain.
I do see what you mean about hearing appearing to become more acute in a relaxed state , it think it also allows a person to shut out what background noise they dont wish to concentrate on needlessly however as ive done this myself on occasion. What i do struggle with is the idea that hypnosis can influence someone to do something they do not want to do on some level, it may put them in a vulnerable state that could be taken advantage of Ie anyone who is sitting or lying in a relaxed state would not expect danger or attack and would be vulnerable in that sense if a wrong un were to attempt this . Similarly someone who is normally in an state of anxiety or stress would be more likely to sucumb to their phobias and fears than if in a state of relaxation and comfort which may or may not perhaps allow them to associate you telling them they no longer need to fear/do/have the things the are there to remove from their life with that comfort and relaxation ?
I dont know as ive never been to a hypnotist although i have dabbled with meditation and relaxation techniques over the years
Jigsaw, I have seen a lady having her third child by Cesarean. a man having a hernia repaired, (he had the hypnotist next to him throughout) that was on national TV and another that was also on national TV having a vasectomy. Just a few of many. Hypnosis was used in war situations when no anesthetic was available. I have helped ladies to have relatively pain free births, just with a tape. Many more examples.
Fluffet Stage hypnosis creates the the impression that you can be made to do what you do not want to do. I explained before, they volunteer at the start of a show. I do encourage ladies to bring a friend. It helps them relax easier. You cannot be made to do anything that you would not normally do. If I were to make an improper suggestion to a lady, she would come out of the altered state immediately. (unless she wanted to comply ) As you say, when people are in trouble, in some way, they are going to try and get the most out of a visit, so naturally, they cooperate. I always ask them to read the feedback before coming to me, belief in what I do is very powerful, gives me a head start. Even the millionaire said the other day, he has never been so relaxed and he was very sceptical, his wife insisted he stop smoking. ;D
Derren Brown, among others use Pattern Interrupt to get people in very quickly without the normal induction routine.
I have said before, if anyone lives close enough, I will demonstrate what I do, free. Nothing like having a personal experience.
Jigsaw, I have seen a lady having her third child by Cesarean. a man having a hernia repaired, (he had the hypnotist next to him throughout) that was on national TV and another that was also on national TV having a vasectomy.
They're not major operations.
Women have been having caesarians for centuries without anaesthetic - believe it or not.
Hypnotism can be used for pain relief in relatively small procedures; but to claim it is used in major operations is false.
Minor operations that can be performed under hypnosis (acupuncture, etc.) can be performed without anaesthetic anyway - the illusion that something amazing is going on is created by the fact that procedures such as hernia repair are not actually as painful in reality as we think.
Jigsaw, If I were to show you the letters I have received regarding helping ladies with childbirth, you would say they anecdotal. All of the letters on my feedback are genuine, you will say they are anecdotal, there is no way I can prove them to you so there is no point in trying.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 21, 2009 19:05:39 GMT
Do you accept Terry that those letters are pointless then since they are anecdotal? or do you have a much lower acceptance of such things than normal people? In other words anything which feeds your ego you accept as true?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Women have been having caesarians for centuries without anaesthetic - believe it or not.
How dare you use facts on this forum! You will give us a bad reputation. What next? Latin and French phrases?
Why do you think I got rid of Meercat! He is now polishing shoes at Lagos airport for a pittance because he dared to say "Ad Hominem"
Hypnotism can be used for pain relief in relatively small procedures; but to claim it is used in major operations is false.
But again I argue that hypnotism is not an actual thing, and that the person only believes they are hypnotised so it is pure placebo. Bit like your mom distracting you as a child while your dad cuts your toe nails
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
In your opinion I sometimes talk crap, maybe, so I typed in major operations with hypnosis, on yahoo, a lot of stuff came up. Franz Mesmer operated on a lady removing her breast, in the 1900s when anesthetics came , they were still using hypnosis. (no side effects) On this site Dr Jack Gibson operated with just hypnosis, 'major' heart operations, amputation of limbs, among many other 'major' operations. www.news-medical.net/news just one among many different sites using hypnosis for pre ops and healing quicker after.
I amazes me that all these people using something that Jon does not think exists.
Some of the stuff I write may well be crap, but at least I try to be constructive, trying to find answers for what thousands of mediums proport to do.
I would just like to add a comment about Jay Love:- as a lot of you with out knowing him have said he's this, and he's that, if you got to know Jay you would change your mind on him i'm sure. I know Jay extremely well, we have been mates now for the past 5yrs and find him an excellant medium, i have been to his mediumship evenings, trance days etc, etc, so do not think these comments on certain mediums is on really. I have worked with jay also. Yes i do agree with comments on Derek Acorha as he is "FAKE" Have seen him live and had about 6 plants sitting in front., he's rude and arrogant with it. Regards Bella
Post by The Legendary Barb on Dec 24, 2009 13:21:22 GMT
Never I should imagine ,if he does and confounds us all with his psychic abilities that will really be a scoop, not only for him but for all mediums/psychics who claim the same as himself. I then can change from being skeptical to becoming a believer. A very nice chap he may very well be,I can imagine a lot of people liking him, that is not really the point is it?. He claims to be psychic I do not happen to believe him. Lets see if he can change minds.
your never too old to set a new goal or dream a new dream[C.S Lewis]
Bella, no offence but isn't it a bit hypocritical to suggest that we criticise Jay Love because we don't know him personally, and yet you criticise Derek Acorah without you knowing him personally either?
You think we'd change our minds if we knew Jay. Does that mean that if you got to know Derek you'd change your mind also?
I doubt it.
"No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else's draft." H G Wells
Just because you know somebody and think he's nice it doesn't mean to say what he does for a living is real and good. You only think he's good because you blindly believe. I was exactly where you are now a few years back I thought Mia Dolan was the dogs bo**ocks, that's until I opened my eyes one day and really questioned what I truly believe in and what is real and then what I thought was real was what I believed in, however the true core of it was there was nothing really solid. Iv'e met may mediums over the years and to be perfectly honest they all basically believe the same, however the questionable part was they all had different enterpretations all conflicting one another regarding the afterlife, so who do you believe?
If you want to believe then all I can say is don't take it too seriously and don't make a living out of it, that's where the explotation comes in. Having a belief or faith shouldn't be used on others it's a private thing and certainly not for profit. If you want to help others with problems then go and get a counselling certificate like I did.