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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 25, 2010 22:53:05 GMT
I cant be hypnotized i've tried 4 times. Probably part of why i dont believe in it. And for the record this was long before i was master of the skeptic universe Hi Jon Is that 4 times with different hypnotists? Yes. Most of the hypnotists I have met have been eyes closed like yourself, only a couple have been eyes open. I actually have correspondance with quite a few hypnotists. The good ones are the ones who do it purely as an act, they make no magical claims. The bad ones are the ones who will take money off people under the false pretence they are helping them.
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grotbags
Noob
This is a raid brats!
Posts: 24
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Post by grotbags on Feb 26, 2010 8:49:20 GMT
Hi Jon Is that 4 times with different hypnotists? Yes. Most of the hypnotists I have met have been eyes closed like yourself, only a couple have been eyes open. I actually have correspondance with quite a few hypnotists. The good ones are the ones who do it purely as an act, they make no magical claims. The bad ones are the ones who will take money off people under the false pretence they are helping them. I have never actually visited a hypnotist/hypnotherapist but have used cd's myself, self-suggestion. One being a cd by Paul McKenna which I found to be helpful. My way of thinking on this is that people have negative thoughts on a daily basis either by their own making or suggestion from other people. If you are told consistently that you are worthless, then in time you will come to believe it. If hypnotherapy can help to undo years of negative mind programming, by replacing negative thoughts with positive ones, then surely that can only be a good thing. Some people may be able to do this by themselves but some people may need someone else to tell them this in person ie a hypnotist. Maybe people who say that they can't be hypnotized are of a mind set who wouldn't take negative words to heart anyway?
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Post by asdfg on Feb 26, 2010 11:01:56 GMT
I cant be hypnotized i've tried 4 times. Probably part of why i dont believe in it. So you've decided the issue through personal experience rather than evidence? That's a spookily familiar error of reasoning!
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 26, 2010 11:30:31 GMT
I cant be hypnotized i've tried 4 times. Probably part of why i dont believe in it. So you've decided the issue through personal experience rather than evidence? That's a spookily familiar error of reasoning! It is my opinion through personal experience, the evidence itself has shown that people like Martin Taylor can do exactly the same thing as someone like Paul McKenner and get identical results and all without hypnosis. Hypnosis doesn't exist, it is a placebo. People act in the way they expect to because they believe in it. Would hypnosis work on someone who had never heard of it or had no idea how they would be expected to act? It is a very similar kind of self delusion as mediumship. When you have people telling you you helped them, or that you have powers you can easily believe them. I would love for someone like Terry to "hypnotize" someone, but deliberately say and do the wrong things and see if it still works, i bet if they really tried it would.
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Post by asdfg on Feb 26, 2010 13:18:12 GMT
Hypnosis doesn't exist, it is a placebo. Hypnosis does exist - there's evidence for it; and I've provided you with evidence for it in the past yet you still go on insisting it doesn't exist because of your 'personal experience'. If someone were making the same argument as you are for mediumship, psychic ability or homeopathy, you'd recognise it as a 'woo argument'. You're doing exactly the same thing! Stage hypnotism is a crock of shít, and the claims people like Terry make are a crock of shít; but hypnotism itself does exist.
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grotbags
Noob
This is a raid brats!
Posts: 24
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Post by grotbags on Feb 26, 2010 14:11:57 GMT
Jon, as Jigsaw says, there is scientific evidence to prove that hypnosis exists. www2.hull.ac.uk/news/news-archive/2009-news-archive/november/brain-activity-changes-during.aspxTests were carried out and the results showed that basic brain activity undergoes a change under hypnosis using a technique called FMRI. www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/sep/10/sciencenews.theguardianlifesupplement2Sport also has a long history of the use of hypnosis sometimes using alternative names such as mental or autogenic training. In the 1956 Melborne Olympics, the Russian team took 11 hypnotists and it is documented that the England team cricket captain Mike Brearley consulted a medical hypnotist. Tennis player Jimmy Connors and bad boy Tiger Woods are other sports stars to have been reported as using hypnosis although it is not often talked about due to the myth that surrounds it. So you tried several times to be hypnotised and it didn't work, for you. That does not mean that it doesn't work at all. Evidence tells us otherwise. It just means that you are one of the people who does not respond to suggestion.
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Post by Cassus on Feb 26, 2010 15:07:14 GMT
It's worth noting that "mental autogenic training", or autogenics, is a well-researched and discredited therapy, scientifcally speaking.
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Post by terry on Feb 26, 2010 15:43:34 GMT
I am not geting into this discussion. ;D apart from replying to Jons comment.
Tad James the top man in American Hypnotherapy, when confronted by some old hypnotherapists saying they could not be hypnotised, said. What you are saying is that you cannot concentrate for a short period of time. focus on what was being said and are unable to accept suggestions. If you were to go for an interveiw for a job and you told the employer that, do you think you would get it?
There is no magic in hypnosis. Its a natural state.
Cassus, I was referring to the regression section.
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Post by Cassus on Feb 26, 2010 16:29:02 GMT
I was going to suggest to Cassus that she read, on my site, (apolgies for adding the recollection of a lady who was surprised as to what came out. I would be interested as to see how a sceptic sees it. www.theterrybaker.co.uk/pages/clients_recollections_of_regression.htmThis anecdotal evidence is of no interest to the sceptic, I'm afraid. If a tape recording of the session existed, we might be able to draw some conclusions from it.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 26, 2010 17:48:37 GMT
What you are saying is that you cannot concentrate for a short period of time. I have no problems concentrating for short or long periods of time. It is not that i am unable, it is that i am highly aware that it is a suggestion therefore I am fully in control of whether i take said suggestion. And when the suggestion is "you will now feel your arm lift" I open myself to this, but nothing happens. I simply do not feel what i am told to, despite wanting too But i wouldn't say such a thing would i. As with any kind of woo i partake in, i WANT it to work, i want to succeed at it. I gain nothing with failing. I disagree
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 26, 2010 17:52:09 GMT
Hypnosis does exist - there's evidence for it; How is that evidence? I am sure anyone in a relaxed state would have their brain waves change. No, i look and listen to people much smarter than me, people like James Randi, Penn & Teller, Derren Brown, Martin Taylor etc. They all say it does not exist. and that it is just social compliance and suggestion. If hypnosis is just the belief that you are hypnotised so you act in a way that matches what you believe to be hypnosis, then yes i accept it is real, but that is not what is claimed is it. Perhaps, but I do not think the evidence for hypnosis is particularly strong, if it was, it would be widely accepted as a real thing, and it is not is it. So what kind of hypnosis specifically do you accept is real?
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grotbags
Noob
This is a raid brats!
Posts: 24
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Post by grotbags on Feb 28, 2010 10:03:48 GMT
I am confused. I thought a big part of this was evidence. You are shown scientific evidence and still choose to say that it doesn't exist because a group of magicians say so!
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Post by asdfg on Feb 28, 2010 10:55:29 GMT
If anyone wants to see a lecture given on real hypnosis, see: www.danacentre.org.uk/events/2007/01/23/221This explains some research that is going on and there's also a couple of demonstrations where real, tangible evidence is demonstrated. This is not the "I can make you thin" or "I can make you act like a chicken" nonsense, but a look at the real effects of hypnotism. Click on "Watch video". Hypnotism is real even if most claims made for it are bogus.
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Post by asdfg on Feb 28, 2010 11:06:02 GMT
No, i look and listen to people much smarter than me, people like James Randi, Penn & Teller, Derren Brown, Martin Taylor etc. Perhaps as magicians they're more aware of stage hypnotism rather than hypnosis as an altered state of mind - anyway, you should be looking to scientists as a source of authoruty, not magicians. It always surprises me that skeptics denounce hypnotism as something fake yet will also blame hypnotism's use in the "satanic ritual abuse" cases back in the 90s as the tool by which therapists implanted false memories into their clients. If it's all fake and doesn't work then how come it is the primary cause of these false memories?
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 28, 2010 14:39:50 GMT
But the only hypntism i am interested in, and are likely to come across in what i do, is stage hypnotism or "i can make you thin" hypnotism.
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Post by asdfg on Mar 1, 2010 0:01:33 GMT
But the only hypntism i am interested in, and are likely to come across in what i do, is stage hypnotism or "i can make you thin" hypnotism. Then you are correct - but you don't make your position clear. Most of the claims made for hypnotism, and what can be achieved using it, are false - but there is an underlying reality to it that shouldn't be ignored. I also provided links to Dr. Michael Heap's (chairman of ASKE) articles on hypnotism on this forum in the past. Clearly you didn't read them; but they give an informed view on the subject by a skeptical expert in this area.
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Post by Amaris on Mar 1, 2010 2:18:49 GMT
Funny how a thread can stray from the subject it was intended for ;D
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Mar 1, 2010 16:12:02 GMT
So back to Jay Love
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fagin
Noob Wannabe
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Post by fagin on Jan 8, 2018 13:54:46 GMT
Well lets give him all the publicity he obviously craves, one way or another he will make a name for himself, so lets make sure when he does there will be plenty of material on him on the site
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