Sceptic Latin Speak - What does it mean?

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

You may have heard various people use Latin to make a point.
Now as much as i hate it, you will come across it a lot on the net. So hopefully in this thread we will try and explain it best we can.

If you know of a Latin phrase that may be of use please post it in this thread with an explanation.

I will add any new ones to this first post, so that the rest of the thread can be used to discuss them.

Argumentum ad hominem
Argument to the person

Quite simply this is where someone attacks the person making the arguments as opposed to the argument itself.

For example many believers will use this approach, if I am exposing say Derek Acorah, instead of the Acorahlyte defending an incident they will turn their attack on me, the idea being if you discredit the source, then this will discredit the information being said.

Argumentum ad Verecundiam / Argumentum ad Populum
An appeal to authority or argument by authority.

In English this is where someones opinion or view is given importance because of a persons standing.

For example, a celebrity promotes a product on TV, people believe that product is better than other similar products because of the inclusion of the celebrity.

Ignotum per Ignotius
An explanation which is even more obscure than the thing it purports to explain.
"the unknown by the more unknown."

More coming soon
Feel fre eto help me out with the explanations etc.

[bobdezon]

Well the reason sceptics use these phrases sometimes is quite simply, because we argue a LOT.Arguments are actually a philisophical science, we have invented almost nothing new in argumentative practises since well before the days of Platos discourses. If you are armed with the correct tools it makes your arguments better, more reasoned and considerably harder to dismiss offhand.To logically state something, and to show reason in the construction of your point makes your argument more valid and usually correct (at least from an opposition viewpoint)

Some useful logical fallacies you are probably all familiar with (but didnt know they had a fancy latin name)

Argumentum ad Baculum (appeal to force) Do as I say or Ill kick your teeth in.
Argumentum ad Misercordiam (appeal to pity) Oh please dont hate me because Im a believer.
Argumentum ad consequentiam (appeal to consequences) If you belive X ill Y as a consequence.
Argumentum ad populum (appeal to popularity) Everyone says its true so it must be.
Argumentum ad lapidem (unreasoned dismisal) Thats a crap idea your just stupid.
Argumentum ad lazarum (appeal to poverty) What do the poor have to offer?
Argumentum ad crumenam (appeal to money) I have 5 cars I know more about driving than you.
Argumentum verbosium (proof by verbosity) A 3 day speech on why water is wet proves it right.
Argumentum ex silentio (argument from silence) Hes not denying his guilt so he must be guilty.
Argumentum ad nauseum (argument to the point of nausea) This topic has been done to death.
Argumentum ad logicam (argument from fallacy) Your aguement is flawed so your conclusion is too.
Argumentum ad antiquitatem (appeal to tradition) We have always walked, why use a car?
Argumentum ad odium (appeal to hate) Anything the B.N.P. say.
Argumentum ad novitatem (appeal to novelty) Any "celebrity diet"
Argumentum ad temperantiam (the middle position is always correct) Allow Restrict Ban.
Argumentum ad nazium (comparing the opposition to hitler) *see Godwins law.
Argumentum ad infinitum (neverending argument) *see Argumentum ad nauseum.
Argumentum in terrorem (appeal to terror) *see Department of Homeland Security.

To successfully argue your point, its useful to learn how to recognise flaws in the oppositions argument.

[bigjohn]

There's a small section of them here: Logical fallacies with examples and explanations.

They're very useful to understand as they help us to spot fallacious reasoning when it's being used against us and they also help us make better arguments by avoiding using them ourselves.

I'll post more later when I have a bit more time.

Good thread BTW. ;D

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

Nice

[Kim]

Good thread, glad to see it has it's own place now

Historia est vitae magistra

[bobdezon]

guidedspirithunter said:

Good thread, glad to see it has it's own place now

Historia est vitae magistra

couldnt agree more, history is the teacher of life, that phrase is more commonly known as "if you do not study history you are doomed to repeat its mistakes"

[bigjohn]

Here’s a quick example of how logical reasoning is commonly used and how it can easily go wrong. I see this in much reasoning about the paranormal.

One of the basic forms of reasoning takes this form:

• If it’s 2AM then it will be dark outside
  
• It’s 2AM therefore it will be dark outside
  

• If it is raining outside the garden will be wet
  
• It’s raining outside therefore the garden will be wet.
  

• Ghosts give off EMFs; if present they will be detected by an EMF meter.
  
• A ghost is present therefore my EMF meter will detect its EMFs.
  

There are many other examples but they all follow the same form:

• if P then Q
  
• P therefore Q
  

It is a valid form of reasoning. It’s not necessarily sound reasoning however. Valid reasoning requires the conclusion to follow logically from the premises – sound reasoning requires the conclusion to follow logically from the premises and that the premises given are true (not the case in the example of ghosts).

So far so good. BUT…

A logical fallacy gets made (affirming the consequent) when we use the same reasoning and work backwards. i.e:

• if P then Q
  
• Q therefore P
  

It can be shown by working the above examples in this fashion:

• If it’s 2AM then it will be dark outside
  
• It’s dark outside therefore it’s 2AM
  

• If it is raining outside the garden will be wet
  
• The garden is wet therefore it’s raining outside.
  

• Ghosts give off EMFs; if present they will be detected by an EMF meter.
  
• I have a reading on my EMF meter therefore a ghost is present.
  

The first two examples are blatantly false as it’s easy to see that there could be other times that it would be dark every night and other reasons for the garden being wet other than it raining.

What about example 3?

It’s just as fallacious as the other two examples but it gets used frequently in paranormal research. Not only is this reasoning prevalent in the write ups of groups who’ve been on investigations but you’ll even see professional parapsychologists doing it on TV as they go around getting ‘significant’ or 'suggestive' readings on their hand-held EMF meters etc. (although they imply rather than openly state that there’s a paranormal cause for it).

That’s an introductory example which shows how a subtle reversal of reasoning direction can lead to fallacious conclusions – and of course to asking the wrong questions in the first place.

When doing research, even at the (serious) amateur level, it’s essential to be aware of how reasoning can go wrong.

When logical reasoning goes wrong, like in the second set of examples given here, it is said that a "logical fallacy" has been committed. Of course, there are many more examples, some much more complex than this one, and they're easy to fall for.

This is why it's important to get a good grasp of logical fallacies - they're very important to understand especially by those who are attempting to investigate a complex area of inquiry. If you don't ask the right questions in the right manner, and learn how to interpret data gathered correctly, you'll end up with answers that are worthless.

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

Bloody hell, i am learning something!!

[thursfield]

try this little link dont know if its any use or if it will even work at the moment..?

sunsite.ubc.ca/LatinDictionary/HyperText/latin-dict-full.html

[pcdunn2005]

Great thread, and a very informative one. I'm finding it interesting...

[theminx]

Craigus Numptiness shellium twatum nastyum

my interpretation

[bobdezon]

theminx650 said:

Craigus Numptiness shellium twatum nastyum

my interpretation

Actually, Asinus asinum fricat is more appropriate for craig shell. It literally means "the ass, rubs the ass".

[bone]

"the ass, rubs the ass".

Did we ever find out what "rubbing" actually meant anyway?

[diggergig]

Fantastic thread - thanks to all who have contributed.

Roses are red,
We know that's a fact,
Ergo it proves,
That ravens are black.

(I still want to know the meaning of 'cruisy')

[ogre]

I stick with Pratchett's "Sodomy non Sapiens" for most situations. (loosly translated - b*ggered if I know)

[Deleted]

ogre said:

I stick with Pratchett's "Sodomy non Sapiens" for most situations. (loosly translated - b*ggered if I know)

;D Ogre! have karma for making me laugh wine out of my nose...

[bigjohn]

sbell said:

;D Ogre! have karma for making me laugh wine out of my nose...

Winumentum ad Nostrillium

To give it its proper title. ;D

[Deleted]

bigjohn said:

sbell said:

;D Ogre! have karma for making me laugh wine out of my nose...

Winumentum ad Nostrillium

To give it its proper title. ;D

;D ;D!! Karma coming your way too once my powers are restored...

[Deleted]

Aha! Powers returned. Karma, Sir...

[hellyp]

I dunno, you don't log on for a few days because you get FUPPING TONSILITIS, you come back and this is what you find. Excellent. I think you must have read my mind, Jon, because before I was overcome by my terrible illness I was thinking of suggesting to someone that we start a thread for the listing of terminology and definitions. Un karma pour vous, Jon.