Also : If god existed before the universe was created then he is "outside of time " - if this is the case then he cant influence anything, since "cause and effect require time " If he can influence the universe : then he must be also constrained by time and cannot have existed prior to the creation of the universe
But your speaking of a non physical being /power/energy or whatever that is having to reside within a physical time frame? Anything surely to exist or follow that rule must be or exist in a physical form or need to physically conform to it...
Were their human spirits before the human race? And if not, why not since we are told that there is no time in the afterlife
Thats the whole point Jon, the problem with god, afterlife and supernatural ideas is that they don't/can't actually answer these questions, they create even more complexity!
Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Were their human spirits before the human race? And if not, why not since we are told that there is no time in the afterlife
Thats the whole point Jon, the problem with god, afterlife and supernatural ideas is that they don't/can't actually answer these questions, they create even more complexity!
The problem is often those asking the questions simply wish to apply their values,beliefs and rules to any explanation. Or of course science,ignoring the fact that much of the science they admire would not exist if people had been prepared to think the unthinkable. Rigid dogma often means a closed mind. Though that comment could be equally applied to both camps. Sceptics and believers.
Were their human spirits before the human race? And if not, why not since we are told that there is no time in the afterlife
Thats the whole point Jon, the problem with god, afterlife and supernatural ideas is that they don't/can't actually answer these questions, they create even more complexity!
The answer that is within my belief structure is actually very simple.The whole structure and understanding of our existence is very simple. Many speak of eternity as an individual,but in my belief and what makes sense to me is that we do not go into eternity as an individual as such,we literally return to how we began.A simple recycling process throughout actually! No need for complexities...very basic,very simple. We are the ones who make it complex by our inability to envisage ourselves as anything but I.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 1, 2007 18:07:38 GMT
The Afterlife as I know it, is run by Alexander the Great. The first caste are the Greek Cypriots, and they are very much the people in charge. All other humans are below the Greek Cypriots.
Psychics and mediums in the afterlife are deemed the most useless as there is no longer any use for their so called gift, they often wait hand and foot on the upper class spirits.
As Alexander the Great is akin to God, he gets to pick and choose what happens to the bad guys. Some he simply wipes out of existence, others he sends down in to hell.
That is my view of an afterlife, and it is 100% as credible, and likely as Kendras.
If anyone disagrees, then you are directly attacking my belief structure and you will be banned.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
The Afterlife as I know it, is run by Alexander the Great. The first caste are the Greek Cypriots, and they are very much the people in charge. All other humans are below the Greek Cypriots.
Psychics and mediums in the afterlife are deemed the most useless as there is no longer any use for their so called gift, they often wait hand and foot on the upper class spirits.
As Alexander the Great is akin to God, he gets to pick and choose what happens to the bad guys. Some he simply wipes out of existence, others he sends down in to hell.
That is my view of an afterlife, and it is 100% as credible, and likely as Kendras.
If anyone disagrees, then you are directly attacking my belief structure and you will be banned.
I dont believe it, Jon does believe in an afterlife after all, is this the end of this website?
i147.Report this post to Admin please.com/albums/r281/PILLSBURY069/avatar_3247DOUGHBOY.gif[/IMG]
The Afterlife as I know it, is run by Alexander the Great. The first caste are the Greek Cypriots, and they are very much the people in charge. All other humans are below the Greek Cypriots.
Psychics and mediums in the afterlife are deemed the most useless as there is no longer any use for their so called gift, they often wait hand and foot on the upper class spirits.
As Alexander the Great is akin to God, he gets to pick and choose what happens to the bad guys. Some he simply wipes out of existence, others he sends down in to hell.
That is my view of an afterlife, and it is 100% as credible, and likely as Kendras.
If anyone disagrees, then you are directly attacking my belief structure and you will be banned.
Honey if that is truly your belief that is fine by me,and I totally respect you for that
Honey if that is truly your belief that is fine by me,and I totally respect you for that
This reminded me of a speech made by Douglas Adams at Magdelene College Cambridge, in September 1998:
Now, the invention of the scientific method and science is, I'm sure we'll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and that it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked and if it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn't withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn't seem to work like that; it has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. That's an idea we're so familiar with, whether we subscribe to it or not, that it's kind of odd to think what it actually means, because really what it means is 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? — because you're not!' If somebody votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it, but on the other hand if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say, 'Fine, I respect that'. The odd thing is, even as I am saying that I am thinking 'Is there an Orthodox Jew here who is going to be offended by the fact that I just said that?' but I wouldn't have thought 'Maybe there's somebody from the left wing or somebody from the right wing or somebody who subscribes to this view or the other in economics' when I was making the other points. I just think 'Fine, we have different opinions'. But, the moment I say something that has something to do with somebody's (I'm going to stick my neck out here and say irrational) beliefs, then we all become terribly protective and terribly defensive and say 'No, we don't attack that; that's an irrational belief but no, we respect it'
The answer that is within my belief structure is actually very simple.The whole structure and understanding of our existence is very simple. Many speak of eternity as an individual,but in my belief and what makes sense to me is that we do not go into eternity as an individual as such,we literally return to how we began.A simple recycling process throughout actually! No need for complexities...very basic,very simple. We are the ones who make it complex by our inability to envisage ourselves as anything but I.
But this doesnt actually answer anything, all it says is I believe X is true because I believe it! This is just circular reasoning.
The answer that is within my belief structure is actually very simple.The whole structure and understanding of our existence is very simple. Many speak of eternity as an individual,but in my belief and what makes sense to me is that we do not go into eternity as an individual as such,we literally return to how we began.A simple recycling process throughout actually! No need for complexities...very basic,very simple. We are the ones who make it complex by our inability to envisage ourselves as anything but I.
But this doesnt actually answer anything, all it says is I believe X is true because I believe it! This is just circular reasoning.
I've just started reading Sam Harris' "The End of Faith" which discusses the nature of religious belief and just how devastating it can (and probably will) be.
Excellent book. Well worth a read.
Fry: Hey, wait, I'm having one of those things…you know, a headache with pictures. Leela: An idea?
I've just started reading Sam Harris' "The End of Faith" which discusses the nature of religious belief and just how devastating it can (and probably will) be.
Excellent book. Well worth a read.
A good example of the nature of religious belief is illustrated by Cargo Cults:
Thanks Bujin. That article contains a fascinating collection of hypotheses regarding the prospective future evolution of the human race. I found it interesting how my favourite novelist, H G Wells, prophesised the formation of two separate species of human beings following the occuarance of a nuclear war in his novel "The time machine". I am very familiar with the novel, but it was only until reading this article that I realised how much this novel ties in with such theories on how evolution could potentially divide the human race into more than one species, following a global disaster.
Although throughout most of my life, I have been an agnostic, I agree 100% with what people have said on this site with regards to how much organised religion creates evil in the world today. In my opinion, a belief system should be derived from one`s own experience, logic, and instinct. Therefore one would expect it to be usually something personal, and unique. To naively devote your life en masse to what was written by someone else hundreds or thousands of years ago, in a different language, twisted by translation and time, and make life and death decisions based on that dogma is the most tragic aspect of human existance. It creates war, division, and apart from anything else creates a lot of wasted time and energy in its devotees.
My favourite philosopher, a late 19th, early 20th century Russian / Armenian, George Ivancovic Gurdjieff described in "In Search of the miraculous", the "Force of Kundilini". The Force of Kundilini is analogous to the ignorance that a herd of sheep have regarding their ultimate doom at the hands of a farmer who may ostensibly seen to be looking after them, but ultimately is planning on slaughtering them for meat. Organised religion is the most obvious example of this. It creates a powerful hypnotic state that states that there is immortality, and if you play by certain rules you will be looked after, and can accumilate brownie points for an "afterlife". It removes the fear of the non existance of death by substituting it for the continuance of life. It is an illusion which blinds us to our fate and our insignificance in the universe. Gurdjieff stated that if human beings were to become fully conscious and aware of their insignifcance in the universe, and to the fact that a human life is just a forgotten speck of dust in the grand scheme of things, then human beings would go crazy. As such, religion (a manisfestation of the force of Kundilini), creates a state of hypnosis in which the individual feels a sense of comfort and significance through the beliefs that they hold. In short, religion could be just one big ego defense mechanism!
If I appear to ramble then I apologise. I`ve had a few stellas and a bottle of wine this evening (well it is friday!)
Last Edit: Feb 3, 2007 1:46:03 GMT by alexraybould
My favourite philosopher, a late 19th, early 20th century Russian / Armenian, George Ivancovic Gurdjieff described in "In Search of the miraculous", the "Force of Kundilini". The Force of Kundilini is analogous to the ignorance that a herd of sheep have regarding their ultimate doom at the hands of a farmer who may ostensibly seen to be looking after them, but ultimately is planning on slaughtering them for meat. Organised religion is the most obvious example of this. It creates a powerful hypnotic state that states that there is immortality, and if you play by certain rules you will be looked after, and can accumilate brownie points for an "afterlife". It removes the fear of the non existance of death by substituting it for the continuance of life. It is an illusion which blinds us to our fate and our insignificance in the universe. Gurdjieff stated that if human beings were to become fully conscious and aware of their insignifcance in the universe, and to the fact that a human life is just a forgotten speck of dust in the grand scheme of things, then human beings would go crazy. As such, religion (a manisfestation of the force of Kundilini), creates a state of hypnosis in which the individual feels a sense of comfort and significance through the beliefs that they hold. In short, religion could be just one big ego defense mechanism!
Yep, I fully agree with that. The Bible (and other holy books) teach that God created man. It is, in my opinion, more likely that man created God. Once we evolved to the stage where we could consider our own mortality, we evolved the idea of an afterlife and a divine being that looks after us as a "comfort". I don't have a great deal of problem with people believing this if it helps them psychologically.
However, religions were built up on this premise and from them, the idea of the afterlife being split into heaven and hell emerged - heaven for the good people, hell for the bad people. When religions split up (e.g. Judaism to Christianity and Islam), the "bad" people included people who did not follow the same religion as yourself, so only people of the same faith as yourself go to heaven, everyone else is damned for eternity. This is a very powerful tool for religions to use. It is simple scaremongering in order to get people on their side. And it has worked, given that Christians and Muslims consist of approximately half of the population of earth.
It is a sign of psychological maturity, IMO, when people accept that there is no such thing as life after death and are able to accept the fact that death IS the end.
I would also point out that given my atheism, an eternity of non-existence is a heck of a lot better a prospect than an eternity of burning in hell...
Fry: Hey, wait, I'm having one of those things…you know, a headache with pictures. Leela: An idea?
