It's my opinion that there are more believers in some sort of religion than there are non believers. That would indicate to me that people need something to grasp onto other than the daily drudgery that surrounds us. In days gone by and even to the present day, wars were fought and in some areas are still fought over religion, nowadays though the bigger wars are fought over political beliefs rather than religious. Is Oil is the new God. Is politics the new religion? There are many positives about religion, charitable works, trying to provide a moral code to live by, teaching us restraint and understanding of others despite it's history. As a race, humankind has to evolve, physically, psychologically and spiritually. Will politics teach us these? I don't think so, when politics are governed by financial gain and the need for superiority over others. All political parties despite their differences all have the same goal in the end, Victory over the other. Sound familiar? Thats religion also. Or it was. In more enlightened world, with the technology available to us we are learning more about each other, each others beliefs and lives. It's not all terrorism and torture. I'd like to believe that religion is also evolving and growing more mature with each passing decade rather than lying stagnant in it's own hatred for others not of their beliefs. Religion for many is a moral code to live by not some belief in an all knowing all seeing all consuming God. There are many good things about religion if you just look hard enough. T
Nobody Steps On A Church In My Town. We're On A Mission From God. The Power of Christ Compels Me (to drink).
There may be many good things about religion, but I would like to suggest that most of them are possible without religion, eg. a moral code and respecting your fellow human beings. One of my main problems with Christianity in particular is that it teaches that humans are born sinful, are prone to sin, die sinful however 'good' a life they led and are of miniscule importance compared to God. These things go against what I strongly feel.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
There are many positives about religion, charitable works, trying to provide a moral code to live by, teaching us restraint and understanding of others despite it's history.
I think this is one of the biggest fallacies with regards to religion.
Charitable works. Religions don't have the monopoly on charity as there are also many humanistic charities. Some religious charities (although probably a very small proportion) provide their charity in exchange for the person joining their religion. There was a website I saw a few months ago which talked about it's mission in Africa providing food for the poor on the provision that the person turned to their religion! That doesn't sound particularly charitable or humane to me! EDIT: I should also point out that the website promoted this as a good thing!
Moral code. They like to think they are providing a moral code, and the layperson falls for it. Some religions arguably do provide a moral code to live by, but is it really the most ethical code? And do non-believers not also provide moral codes to live by? One of the stupidest beliefs among religious people is that without belief in God, you would have no concept of right and wrong and would therefore happily murder your nextdoor neighbour.
Teaching us restraint and understanding of others. Our current codes of conduct regarding other people have come about through thousands of years of pointless wars. Did we really have to torture 50,000 women accused of witchcraft in order to learn that torture was wrong? I could have told you that without needing to put it into practise first.
I agree that most things such as morality are capable without the need for religious input but some people feel that to continue with that morality they may need a support group much like Alcoholics Anonymous. Thats were the religious aspect may kick in as they can find like minded people in churches, mosques, synagogues all over the world. You could go into any country in the world and find one of these filled with people with the same beliefs as you. T
Nobody Steps On A Church In My Town. We're On A Mission From God. The Power of Christ Compels Me (to drink).
I'm an atheist. I haven't had my children christened.
I am very annoyed at the moment by what my daughter told me the otehr day.. She told me that her teacher had said that children who hadn't been christened don't go to see Jesus when they die!!!!!
I mean WTF!!!
I will have something to say next week when they go to school.
Good points Bujin but I never said religion had a monopoly on charity. I merely pointed out that many religions do charitable work. The website you saw, from my understanding of it, was only about one religion. I was generalising on all religions, not just one, maybe that wasn't too clear in my post. There has been recent research into the witch craft trials and the numbers apparently tortured and killed may not have been as high as previously thought but your point is taken and we did not need to kill so many to learn restraint and understanding but I also pointed out that religion is growing and developing. T
Nobody Steps On A Church In My Town. We're On A Mission From God. The Power of Christ Compels Me (to drink).
Good points Bujin but I never said religion had a monopoly on charity. I merely pointed out that many religions do charitable work.
Indeed. But my point is that non-religious people do charitable work too, therefore it nullifies the point about religions being good because they do charity work.
The website you saw, from my understanding of it, was only about one religion. I was generalising on all religions, not just one, maybe that wasn't too clear in my post.
That's true. It was a christian charity, but I can't remember the details.
There has been recent research into the witch craft trials and the numbers apparently tortured and killed may not have been as high as previously thought but your point is taken and we did not need to kill so many to learn restraint and understanding but I also pointed out that religion is growing and developing.
I could have used the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, or dozens of other attrocities committed in the name of religion as things we didn't really need to actually do to know they are wrong.
Religion is growing? Maybe so, but does it REALLY need 2500+ years in order to work out that being crappy to your fellow human being is not very nice?
In the 2500+ years its not just religion that has been crappy to your fellow human being. Many civilisations conquered, killed and maimed just for expansion and greed. You can blame religion for the cruelty in the name of religion but you cannot lay all of humankinds atrocities at religions feet. As a race we are still in our relative infancy, learning and developing all the time. This for me includes religion, I meant in my post that religion is growing and developing within itself not nescessarily in numbers. I see that as a good thing. T
Nobody Steps On A Church In My Town. We're On A Mission From God. The Power of Christ Compels Me (to drink).
In the 2500+ years its not just religion that has been crappy to your fellow human being. Many civilisations conquered, killed and maimed just for expansion and greed. You can blame religion for the cruelty in the name of religion but you cannot lay all of humankinds atrocities at religions feet.
And nor would I try.
As a race we are still in our relative infancy, learning and developing all the time. This for me includes religion, I meant in my post that religion is growing and developing within itself not nescessarily in numbers. I see that as a good thing.
Interesting you say that. I agree with you in part. Humanity is, in my opinion, not in its infancy or even childhood any longer. It is now reaching adolescence.
Religion was like the parent that guided mankind through its early days, brought it up with an understanding of the world which, while not complete (or even true in many circumstances) helped mankind find its feet.
However, now we have reached adolescence, we're starting to realise that the world isn't as sugar-coated as the parent has made it out to be. i.e., religion paints a picture of a life after death and a universe which really cares about us, when the evidence points to the exact opposite in both cases.
But, like most children growing up, part of them wants to get out there and experience the big, bad world, but part of them wants to remain as a child, to not let go of the parent, and to continue to believe everything the parent had told it.
But eventually, it has to let go of its childhood and grow up.
Fry: Hey, wait, I'm having one of those things…you know, a headache with pictures. Leela: An idea?
I'm an atheist. I haven't had my children christened.
I am very annoyed at the moment by what my daughter told me the otehr day.. She told me that her teacher had said that children who hadn't been christened don't go to see Jesus when they die!!!!!
I mean WTF!!!
I will have something to say next week when they go to school.
Thats what I grew up with, being the only unchristened child at a C of E Primary School. Me and my friend who was a catholic were pretty much the lower species...
I like catholicsism, you get free wafers in church. Handy if you have a block of vanilla icecream lying around. They also double as reject flying saucers sans sherbert orcourse
I like catholicsism, you get free wafers in church. Handy if you have a block of vanilla icecream lying around. They also double as reject flying saucers sans sherbert orcourse
Sorry if this is off on a tangent, but, can anyone explain the logic of Communion - drinking the blood of Christ and eating the flesh? Is that "transubstantiation"? Not sure if I have the spelling right.
It is yet another idea in Christianity that mystifies me. Is there an equivalent in Judaism or Islam?
Its obviously based on the much older belief that if you ingest something you attain its power by allowing it inside yourself to become one with you. In ancient societies they ate the heart of their enemy to gain his strength etc. Its roughly the same thing. By allowing the blood and body of christ (his essence) into your own, you become "christlike". Its magic thats all, mumbo for the masses (no pun intended)
I like catholicsism, you get free wafers in church. Handy if you have a block of vanilla icecream lying around. They also double as reject flying saucers sans sherbert orcourse
Sorry if this is off on a tangent, but, can anyone explain the logic of Communion - drinking the blood of Christ and eating the flesh? Is that "transubstantiation"? Not sure if I have the spelling right.
It is yet another idea in Christianity that mystifies me. Is there an equivalent in Judaism or Islam?
Yeah that's transubstantiation. Catholics believe that at the point of the Eucharist the wine and wafer to all intents and purposes becomes the blood and body of Christ.
Why do it? Well...
The Gospel of John 6:52 'The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
So basically it's about having Christ literally within you, and getting eternal life.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
54 'he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
