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Post by Amaris on Apr 12, 2008 2:21:43 GMT
What are your thoughts on this? I admit to not being completely up to date on scientific information but I personally believe the Earth adapts to changes and whether we survive those changes or not is irrelevent to it, whether we (apparently) cause those changes or not. Anyway I found this which basically finds flaws in the reality behind Al Gore's film and general scaremongering about this subject. www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/the_slick_trick_behind_global.html
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Post by kensington on Apr 12, 2008 5:16:54 GMT
Hi there, to be honest I am getting sick of global warming. The more I read about it the more I do not know what to believe. I think there is a huge amount of propaganda, misinformation and nonsense. Whilst I believe there is some form of global warming I do not fully believe that man is as responsible as some say. I think there is a lot of hysteria and scaremongering. Remember Y2K? I remember the mass hysteria then. I co-hosted a local radio show back in 1999 and we had guests on warning people of this and that and to be honest I felt at the time people were worrying about nothing. I also believe that many goverments are jumping on the global warming band wagon because they know it's a vote winner and promising environmental policies on global warming detracts from more important and immediate problems such as those in public services. It helps bury more serious stories. I think governments use it as a political football. Many scientists are not much better. They know they can get more government funding for their papers and dissertations if they say they'll do a part of the thesis on global warming or the environment. Many scientists are ostracised unless they toe the line on global warming. Fortunately a few ar now speaking out. So yes I do believe there is global warming and we should do what we can to protect the environment but I think most of it is based on mass hysteria with many scientists and governments and the media jumping on the band wagon. Just my thoughts
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Post by bobdezon on Apr 12, 2008 6:31:32 GMT
I believe it doesnt matter what we do to the earth. When it gets pissed off at us well just become another mass extinction. I do not believe global warming is what will finish us off. I think what will, is going to be biological, and probably effect the ability to reproduce.
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Post by kensington on Apr 12, 2008 6:45:43 GMT
Totally agree. The earth has been here millions and millions of years and will continue to be here that long at least.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2008 7:43:18 GMT
I believe it doesnt matter what we do to the earth. When it gets pissed off at us well just become another mass extinction. I do not believe global warming is what will finish us off. I think what will, is going to be biological, and probably effect the ability to reproduce. Like the film Children of Men?
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Post by Amaris on Apr 12, 2008 9:19:04 GMT
I believe it doesnt matter what we do to the earth. When it gets pissed off at us well just become another mass extinction. Couldn't agree more Bob
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Post by gizzy1 on Apr 12, 2008 9:24:10 GMT
I like to watch the Discovery channels and lately I have been following the channel that has been showing walking with Dinosaurs. It was showing what happened to them and how the earth was changing, Ice ages, volcanos erupting etc. Now if you think about it man wasnt around that early, so unless the Dinosaur caused global warning, it was all mother nature from what I understand. all natural occurances, and in my opinion that is what is happening now, the earth is just going through it's natural cycle, oh yes we ay be helping it a little with what we do in our every day lives, but at the end of the day it is going to happen anyway whether man is on this earth or not.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Apr 12, 2008 10:12:12 GMT
Worth noting that it is not even called Global Warming any more, now its Climate Change!
Anyway watch this, should make your mind up for you
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Post by Meercat on Apr 12, 2008 10:33:41 GMT
George Carlin sums up my views on 'environmentalists' and 'saving the planet'. Personally I think Global warming/cooling exists, but 'we' have nothing to do with it.
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Post by tomolac on Apr 12, 2008 10:56:41 GMT
I like to watch the Discovery channels and lately I have been following the channel that has been showing walking with Dinosaurs. It was showing what happened to them and how the earth was changing, Ice ages, volcanos erupting etc. Now if you think about it man wasnt around that early, so unless the Dinosaur caused global warning, it was all mother nature from what I understand. all natural occurances, and in my opinion that is what is happening now, the earth is just going through it's natural cycle, oh yes we ay be helping it a little with what we do in our every day lives, but at the end of the day it is going to happen anyway whether man is on this earth or not. wasn't it a large rock hitting the earth at a high speed that cause those changes?
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Post by Amaris on Apr 12, 2008 11:58:37 GMT
George Carlin sums up my views on 'environmentalists' and 'saving the planet'. Personally I think Global warming/cooling exists, but 'we' have nothing to do with it. I love George Carlin
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Post by ogre on Apr 13, 2008 2:09:10 GMT
Eh? Kensington, a lot of the reason that the worst of Y2k did NOT happen was because people like me (and I played a tiny tiny tiny part in the grand scheme of things, but it was quite important for the company I worked for) put in a lot of time & effort to make SURE that it didn't happen.
Sorry but it does push my buttons, it's like saying "if that house fire isn't put out, the town could will burn down"
Then going around saying "all those people who said the town was going to burn down were scare mongers and charlatans"
Whilst completely ignoring the firemen packing away their equipment after putting the house fire out.
I'm not saying it was going to be as bad as some made out, but I know for a fact the programme changes I had to make to the telephone systems in the company I worked for, (the overtime was quite nice, but being away from home so much wasn't).
Personally I do totally acknowledge that Man in the grand scheme of things is a fairly small. But the "oh we're all going to die anyway" attitude is not condusive to our species surviving, and as we are the only example of (so called) intelligence that we know about aren't we worth preserving? (I wish I could say we were, but listening to the World Service reports of corruption in Bulgaria and Afganistan (the latter by the AID agencies!! then I'm not sure either).
If you can sit in a 3 lane traffice jam on the M6, sucking in the pollution being put out by your car and all those around you, and somehow think all that Carbon ISN'T building up somewhere then you really aren't paying attention.
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Post by bobdezon on Apr 13, 2008 2:46:16 GMT
Like the film Children of Men? I dont know matey, I havent seen it yet.
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Post by ogre on Apr 13, 2008 2:54:01 GMT
Catastrophic global warming," caused by human beings, is a really wild-eyed idea, given the fact that animals have survived on earth for half a billion years, with thousands of massive volcanic explosions, giant meteors hitting the earth, drifting continents, and great biomass changes that would have perturbed the climate, if the hypothesis were true. Just imagine the amount of C02 that must have been released with the Cambrian explosion of animal life. If the earth really saw superfast global ups and downs in temperature, no animals could have survived those 500 million years. The Ice Ages drove animals and people south, but they were not superfast, global events, or you and I would not be here today. Animals and plants are able adapt to temperature changes. Polar bears grow layers of fat and long, dense fur. Camels can stay cool in the desert.
Hmmmmnn They're being a bit selective here aren't they? Thousands of species DID go extinct, or they would have Dinosaurs and wooly mammoth roaming around their offices.
Again this looks like the "hey SOME life will continue, who cares what it is" arguement.
Which as a Human I find quite a depressing one.
To answer the biggest con trick in the history of science, you just have to address a single question to True Believers: What's your evidence for this barmy idea? (Not: Here's my evidence against it. That's not how it works
I'm 44. In my lifetime Winters have shifted from October / Feb to Dec / April. There's hotter summers. Species that did not use to survive in this country and some diseases (like blue tongue) are now surviving and gaining a foothold.
From what I've seen on the Discovery Channel, the "natural" state of the planet seems to be a ice ball, and it was "lucky" volcanic action that stopped it. Apparently by some measures we should be cooling down again, but GW is keeping us toasty.
Did anyone see the research done after 9/11, where most of the air traffic over the states was grounded so that there were no aircraft contrails in the sky. The researcher did not see (much) evidence for GW but did note that the lack of contrails meant that the range of temperatures and the rate they change was significantly greater.
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Post by ogre on Apr 13, 2008 3:04:18 GMT
Oliver Cromwell and his witchhunters would have understood perfectly.
Oh and they were doing so well, and then drop such a stupid, ignorant ill informed LIE as their sign off. B*llocks. If they can't get that right then I don't put any trust in any of their other points.
OC / Charles 1 / 2 is where I LIVE, and Cromwell did not have truck with Witchfinders. He was highly religous, but he believed that a man's religion was his personal business. As long as it did not interfere with the matters of State then a man was allowed to worship God in his own way (I suspect no one's interested, but if you are I can provide the incidents).
The "witch hunters" were a 16th / 17th C response to the growing political unrest, as peoples lives fell apart then they looked for someone to blame (look to the Nigerians at the moment). Mathew Hopkins was a smart crook who managed to make a nice living out of condemning men and women as witches, until he got c*cky and started accusing people who had enough power to question his accustations, then he did a runner.
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Post by hellyp on Apr 13, 2008 3:17:55 GMT
Like the film Children of Men? I dont know matey, I havent seen it yet. Make haste! It's worth it (in my opinion).
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Post by kensington on Apr 13, 2008 3:26:14 GMT
Hi Ogre, I am assuming you are referring to my Y2K comments. I totally agree with you and feel you may have misunderstood what I was saying and if you did I apologise. I am totally aware and was fully aware at the time that people were working hard behind the scenes which is exactly why I was confident that Y2K would not be a disaster.
So please don't think for one second I felt that nothing was being done. I appreciate the hard work that you and others did to prevent any potential disaster. But as I say it was thanks to people such as you that I knew little if anything would go wrong. I was proved right despite all the scare mongering from friends and the media etc.
I do believe in global warning but what I do not believe in is the extent of how serious it is and resent the mass hysteria drummed up by the media, of whom I work for, and politicians. I believe it is used to bury and detract from more serious issues.
Yes Y2K didn't happen very much thanks to people such as yourself but with that right up until the last moment people were going into hysteria over it. People such as yourself sorted it out. You did a great job and it was a job that was done effectively so why the mass hysteria and scare mongering. It was uncalled for and we were fed with such baloney as planes falling out of the sky etc. Totally out of proportion to the reality which I did not buy for one second.
The same is happening with global warming. It is an important issue but we are also fed with misinformation too. It has become a new form and equivalent of religious evangelism where by we are preached at and made to feel guilty for our behaviour as humans. Anyone disagreeing with the status quo is crticised.
What we need is more balance and as sceptics it is important for us to question what we are told. Less doom and gloom and predictions of the world ending and more balance and information. That is all I am asking for.
From what you have written on global warming I think we pretty much agree on things in the sense that there is exaggerated information out there.
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Post by ogre on Apr 13, 2008 3:43:00 GMT
Ah, Ok Kensington I apologise also. 8 years later and it's still a bit of a sore spot and I tend to bite before analysing.
Unfortunately I do agree with you about GW being overhyped. I think there are many factors involved (I know of Y2K "Consultants" who were earing a fortune from about 1997 onwards) I suspect the same may be going on with GW opinions / solutions. I'm also aware of things like the explorer having to abandon his attempt to reach the N.Pole (I think, and I've forgotten his name) because the ice conditions were terrible (I acknowledge that he could have just given up after 8 days and blamed the ice, but I don't think so).
But I think I may have an answer for you as to why there was so much Hype put around, both for Y2k and GW.
One part is that a lot of people can make a lot of money from it.
But the more important (to me) part is that unless people can be frightened out of their apathy then things don't get done. I've seen it posted here and elsewhere "they can do what they like as long as they don't bother me" " when they start telling me..... then I'll....."
Now just imagine Y2k if it had only been reported in Computer Weekly or World Service broadcasts at 2 a.m., do you think the average Board member would listen to his IT staff telling him "we need to start now in 1998 to fix a problem in 2000? We can't even get decent PCs out of our Board (via a long chain I admit). No those Board members, Politicians and Public HAD to be given a kick up the arse to create the climate to allow "us" to make the changes that were needed (or even just the checks to make sure things were compliant.
I well remember taking a call from the Glasgow Branch Manager. He thought that as money was being put aside to re-equip Branches with new telephone systems he was going to get one, and had already looked at a couple (the Scots were always a law unto themselves). He did not react well when I had to tell him that as he had a 60s stlye switchboard that did not care which day it was let alone which millenium, his Branch would get no Cap Ex authorisation until AFTER 2000 as his Branch was one of the ones that was bug proof!
There are changes taking place ( I have seen them in my lifetime). What causes them I don't know. That we should be doing something to preserve our species and culture I totally believe in, and that's what I find concerning. Only the Religous seem to be building arks. The "rationalists" "humanists" and "skeptics" seem to be taking an "oh it's all natural, let the planet be inherited by starfish" attitude.
I think there was a grain of truth (like in any good lie) that things could have gone badly wrong. What "worries" me nowadays is the total reliance on GPS. I'm not a Luddite I love the tech, but people are forgetting how to read maps, plan routes etc.
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Post by kensington on Apr 13, 2008 4:39:57 GMT
You know what you are so right about GPS. I have friends who totally depend on it even when someone else or even themselves know a quicker route. My friend and I drove across Sydney last week from the Harbour Bridge to the suburb or Ryde. The GPS took us down two wrong roads. What happened to people using their own minds and checking a map. Talking of dumbing down. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2008 17:49:07 GMT
I dont know matey, I havent seen it yet. Make haste! It's worth it (in my opinion). Agreed.
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