You can learn cold reading from a book or you can learn it by trial and error (without realising it).
I know. I see it a lot in churches and on TV
From what I have seen, those who believe they are developing their psychic skills are, in reality, simply learning cold reading by honing in on what gets the best results.
So you have attended on a regular basis a development circle. If so would you like to say which. If not what is that statement based on?
What's the harm?
Most of the time there's none; but some people will suffer a tragic loss (for example) and if they've been seduced by the idea of receiving messages from the afterlife they may turn to psychics at their time of tragedy.
This can be psychologically very harmful. It can interfere with the grieving process to the point where the person becomes trapped in it, they can become psychologically dependent on psychics, and I've come across a couple of cases where people have been given 'proof' that the afterlife exists after their loss and so have gone on to commit suicide.
Irrational beliefs have their consequences - no matter how harmless they may appear.
I agree but that is not as common as many sceptics would love us to believe. In fact i have consistently asked for figures on this. But i agree harm can be done.
I fail to see how if a medium gives an " accurate" description of a loved one it is a "ruse"
The ruse is stating that there's more than one person coming through, giving a (probably vague) description, and then letting the client decide who it is.
The trick is to get the client to make sense of the information which will then be fed back to the medium.
The standard use of the trick is to claim to connect to a 'mother type figure'. Then when the client says "that'll be auntie Jane" the psychic will say, "yes, I have auntie Jane here".
The client provides the info - the psychic takes the credit for connecting to Auntie Jane.
Thanks Lowrider, I think I will give up trying to prove anything. As I have said many times, we will know for sure when we die.
However, just briefly on the cases of suicide, we cannot protect others from everything. Life is not fair and never will be. My sister's friend hung herself last week because her husband was having an affair. If you are going to do it you will do it. People are imbalanced and then there are people who will rip you off. You will never stop it.
It does not mean that everyone out there is bad. Trust is something I cannot live without, therefore I trust in me and my judgement and that is good enough.
If I don't have trust in what I believe in and who I believe in then my life would be truely sad. I can't question everything, I don't have time!
Inquisitor, I have to say, Tony did not tell me that there was more than one person coming through. He told me about a man who was recounting scenarios we had been in together and telling me stuff about his life, and what to pass on to his family and this was a cousin of mine, of which I did not tell him. He thought it was a past boyfriend (which was not wrong really as we had a few episodes - he was a cousin many times removed I have to add).
At the end of the reading he asked if there was anyone I had wanted to hear from. That is when I said Richard. Again I did not tell him he was related, or how old he was or how he died etc, etc. He told me.
The ruse is stating that there's more than one person coming through, giving a (probably vague) description, and then letting the client decide who it is.
The trick is to get the client to make sense of the information which will then be fed back to the medium.
The standard use of the trick is to claim to connect to a 'mother type figure'. Then when the client says "that'll be auntie Jane" the psychic will say, "yes, I have auntie Jane here".
The client provides the info - the psychic takes the credit for connecting to Auntie Jane.
See how it works?
Yes i did say i understood and had seen cold and hot reading. But your point was made in a general manner. I asked many questions including an accurate description and when did sceptics write the rule book on what is an acceptable method of communication. I also posted asking of your experience of mediumship development as you seemed quite authoritative on the topic.
In other words the mind is made up and ALL mediums cold read if they are accurate.
No. All we can do is assume that cold reading is taking place until/unless a psychic can demonstrate that what they do is real under controlled conditions.
Otherwise the alternative hypothesis, that this claimed ability is a cognitive illusion, is the one that takes precedence.
We know cold reading can be learned, we know it fools people into thinking that you're telling them things that 'you couldn't possibly have known', we understand the psychological factors that convince people that psychic powers are real, and we have countless examples of fakery by self-proclaimed psychics.
Given that we know that much, and that there's no proof that psychic ability is real, I can't think of a good reason why anyone should believe in psychics (of any kind) - unless they prove themselves.
So why do people believe in God. There is no proof. Wait till you die, just like me, and all will be revealed. However I like my life being a believer, so I am not one of the nutters that will top themselves to find out. I am quite happy to wait. I am sure you are too.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 19, 2006 19:15:00 GMT
I have to say something here as for this specific instance I would say i am in a better place than The Inquisitor to comment.
I am completely willing to accept that Hotchic does not cold read, I can also accept that they have not learnt it subconsciously either.
There are ways people can delude themselves to believe they are psychic when they are not.
I have sat in a circle, I have given readings that would blow your mind, i know how to cold read, so I know for a fact i did not, yet still i was successful.
But there was no voice in my head, no psychic images.
My psychic ability only existed in the minds of the people I was reading for.
EVERYTHING Hotchic describes I have seen first hand, i have done first hand.
I KNOW as FACT that Tony Stockwell is a fraud, I find it very hard to even contemplate that he may have real abilities, knowing what I know about him.
I have watched him give readings many times, i KNOW he cold reads.
so called Psychic ability is not an issue on how well someone cold reads, it goes much deeper than that.
Without cheating, without cold reading, i was able to describe Kendras Uncle, where he was from, his accent, how he would act in certain situations, things I simply could not possibly know.
In Kendras own words never before had ANY student done so well with a reading of her.
I am not psychic FACT, I have NO connection to spirit, yet I gave Kendra a reading which was equally if not more impressive than the reading Tony gave Hotchic. More impressive because Kendra wanted me to fail. and through gritted teeth she admitted i had done amazingly.
Sometimes a reading simply is a mixture of pure coincedence and luck.
Sometimes that character you make up in your head on the spur of the moment matches, it happens.
that built in with the clients need to believe, their making fit what you say, the very fact that words can never be as detailed as real faces, pictures, personalities.
I know Tony Stockwell is a fraud, his treatment of of someone close to me exposed an evil side to him.
I can record Tony on the tele, and show you exactly how he cold reads someone.
But you Hotchic, you cannot believe me, you WONT believe me, because if you ever admit I am right, it means your false memory created by Tony is a lie, and from what i know of you, you simply do not want to believe you were conned, you want to be a medium, you want to be like your hero, you want to be different to be special.
It is not as rosy as it seems, ask someone like kendra, someone who is a professional medium, someone who has lived in that world.
The very fact you are on this forum and talking to us shows me their is hope for you, you have doubt in your mind.
Gwen Acorah herself once said to me "A real Derek fan would never go on your site, or post on your forum, for a real believer has no need for doubt"
You are here, and we can help show you the truth.
Put up your truth against our truth, and we will see which truth holds true
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
JD that is the nicest, most real post you have ever written to me, and yes I believe in what I am doing now, but I am not closed minded. I have never said I am psychic, and maybe I am not a medium. Maybe my coincidences are so good that when they make people feel better I just love it. I am still learning.
I still won't trash Tony, however I am not saying that he is an angel. I am not an angel. I have a lovely side and a horrid side. However good cannot exist without bad. People also grow, and until Tony proves otherwise to me, then I will continue to believe in him and be his friend.
With regards for truth. I will be open minded until I die. Then the truth will out. I like what I believe in at the moment though, so we will soldier on eh JD?
I cannot live like that. I have to live with faith. I do not need physical proof that something is real. How do I know that my marriage is real? Trust! How do i know that my parents are who they say they are, because they signed a piece of paper? Should I get a DNA test. Trust. I have to have trust in people. That is the way I live.
I like to question sometimes, but I could not live my entire life questioning. I haven't got time. I have to live!!!
I like to question sometimes, but I could not live my entire life questioning. I haven't got time. I have to live!!!
I manage it. Then again, I don't waste a load of time on fantasies.
There are a lot of people who believe their parents (particularly fathers) are their genetic parents and a DNA test would prove otherwise (this is one of the arguments against having a national DNA database btw).
So yes, I take the point that one should not ask questions if one is not prepared for the answers.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 19, 2006 20:26:29 GMT
You can live with faith, belief etc, that is fine, in fact i see little wrong with someone believing that their dead relatives live on in heaver etc. Its not for me, but i see firsthand how this belief can help and comfort people.
But when this belief is created through fraudulent means, through psychics however well intentioned, it grates me.
People should be able to have faith without needing a psychic to con them.
The issue here is specific, psychics take money for something that is not real, this is where the crime is.
Hotchic, believe in heaven, whatever you want, but leave the mediumship behind, it is all a moneymaking con.
It is not a respectable job, in fact it is one of the most dispicable jobs around.
You dont need mediumship to be a special person, to be different, to be unique, you are already these things.
Wanting to be a medium makes you a sheep, it makes you unoriginal, ununique, and NOT special.
Why would you want to assiciate yourself with the single most fraudulent industry in the world!
Yes people like Tony are very nice and friendly, but if you knew just a fraction of what i know, what truly goes on behind the scenes, how certain mediums and their associates all talk to each other, you would be sick.
Do you honestly think i would put so much time, money and effort just to spoil someones fun?
I have seen and experienced first hand the truth behind the psychic industry.
We had a medium as a moderator on here about a year ago, his family were threatened simply because of his association with me.
Kendra has had her centre threatened, her very livelyhood threatened by the so called love and lighters becaus eof her outspoken attitude against the frauds.
PM Kendra, ask her about Colin Fry, and Tony Stockwell, she has experienced these people first hand, let someone who isnt a sceptic tell you the truth, maybe you are more likely to listen to someone like her.
Prove you are more than just an Essex girl, prove to us all that you are an independant, intelligent woman, with faith and beliefs, but also critical thought and an open minded attitude. Dont be a sheep of people like Tony, you dont need them.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 19, 2006 20:30:31 GMT
abcde said:
So yes, I take the point that one should not ask questions if one is not prepared for the answers.
John, she is here and she is asking questions, that must tell you a lot as it does me.
Hotchic is not a fraud, if she was she wouldnt be wasting her time here.
Sometimes someone who appears closeminded, blinkered etc is truly just searching for the truth, I honestly believe she is prepared for answers, and the truth.
We are not here to preach about faith and what beliefs people should have, that is upto them and their right.
But I have hope, I have faith in people, I have good feelings about Hotchic, hell i feel the same about mediums like Kendra, Lowrider etc.
I open my arms to the very people who hate and dispise me the most, because in every believer is a skeptic fighting to get out!
(Wow that speech could've been in a movie!!)
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Can I just say, I may live in Essex but I am not an Essex Girl! I am originally from Berkshire. No offence meant to any real Essex Girls, but I like my roots more.
