class divide in child neglect?

[conbott]

a few days ago i found out about a woman who has been found guilty of leaving a toddler at home while she went (on holiday i think) with her boyfriend. thankfully the little one was found before anything terrible happened.
i'm just wondering how anyone else felt about this given that the McCanns have not been charged with anything yet and in their case poor little maddie is still missing. how can class divide prevent the same treatment to all parents, no matter what their standing is in life?

[Dippy]

If it is the same one as I am thinking of, I think she just went off to see her boyfriend leaving the child penned in the kitchen.

Watching a bit of footage it seems she had done it before and more so that the child even though only about the age of two, was doing things a one year old did.

This case of leaving a child alone was, I would say, a lot more of child neglect and not like the McCanns at all. Just leaving the child was not the only issue concerned in this case and while the McCanns say they checked on Madeleine this woman went to her boyfriends for an entire weekend.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7438365.stm

It may be that you are looking at a different story but this is the most recent case.

[conbott]

thanks for that, by the time my mum had told me about it the news channels had already taken it off. i am a mother and i know i don't warrant any mother of the year awards, etc. but no matter what mistakes i've made (and believe me i have) you never consciously leave any child like that. i wonder how many people knew what this woman was doing and didn't report it before. a few years ago i knew someone who had locked her child (who was about 18 months old) in her bedroom while she took her lazy husband to work. she was reported for it and got away with it. this young girl was abused by the father physically and mentally growing up and he was never held accountable for it.
like the McCanns they had their children in their late thirties. they'd several years of holidays on their own, parties, get togethers and so on. i thought that would have made them better parents in the respect of they'd done their "single couple" thing. plus they have the money to hire a nanny or even take one with them on holiday. i know this has all been said time and time again but sadly because of their selfish actions a poor innocent little girl is now missing.

[oh2bhappy]

I do feel that the McCanns have paid the ultimate price for what they did. In that way my heart goes out to them, and their life must be so empty.

However, (there had to be a 'however', didn't there...) I do find it frustrating that they don't admit to being plonkers. And I do think, conbott, that they should have been questioned about child neglegt - as leaving 3 children under the age of 4 for that period of time is neglect.

The woman who left her children should be charged and imprisoned. The child concerned should not be allowed back to live with the mother.

Just my thoughts, of course.

[conbott]

it's tricky really. they've paid the ultimate price but if they get away scot free how can anyone else be charged for child neglect?
i agree the woman who left her child should be charged and imprisoned but the one difference between both stories is that thankfully the child was found alive where as unfortunately madeleine is still missing. you cannot hide behind your standing in life while someone else is quite rightly so punished. to make it worse the McCanns could afford the best child care and yet chose to leave 3 vulnerable young children alone for their own enjoyment, basically just to sit with friends in a tappas bar. one rule for one and one rule for another should never apply in cases like this.
i love hearing other peoples thoughts, thanks.

[aelwyn]

Just because one can breed doesn't mean they should.

I worked with a couple who were charged with neglect after leaving their 4 year old at home by himself while they were at work. I was horrified! They used to take him to work with them (it was a small eatery, and he was the manager) and let him stay in the backroom. When they stopped doing that, I presumed they'd found a sitter, or he was in daycare. Nope, they just locked him in his bedroom for 7 hours at a time. *sigh*

I think people should be MORE severely punished for child neglect or abuse. Having a child is a commitment people should not take lightly, but most people either have an "oops", or have a child as an accessory, and don't realize (or care) about the responsibility involved.

[conbott]

so true aelwyn, like in one of my previous posts where i wrote about the little girl locked in her bedroom while the mother took the father to work. i knew first hand she did it but sadly they got away without being charged for anything. she'll be 20 years old next and she's suffered. nothing's ever got done about it. it's not just about loving your children it's common sense.
it's always someone elses fault. i'd like to think that madeleine is somewhere alive and well. we don't know what part the McCann's had to play in her missing but no matter how you look at it they're responsible for her missing because they left her on her own. i wonder what else was said to the portugese police and whether there'll be anymore leaks.

[exile]

I think what should be remembered is that places like these apartments the McCanns stayed in do offer a babysitting service. I read that the service can be either an intercom system where they check the intercoms for any crying children and do not enter the rooms and another service where the sitter stops by each different room to check on the different children at possibly half hour intervals. The McCanns seemed to want to forgo that and do the checks themselves... I'm not saying that is right, as it's not something I could ever do. I would take my kids with me and let them fall asleep in their pushchair rather than leave them anywhere. But the point I'm making is that if the services that were available were used the night Madelaine went missing and the same thing happened who would then be responsible?

[fruitbat]

I agree Exile. I think the 2 cases are very different. I hate the McCanns for what they did, and I am still sure more will come out about this case, but it is different to the other one and I really don't think it is a class issue.

[Dippy]

Until the law changes and until child services do more (or have more leeway or staff to do more) nothing will change.

If we all think hard enough we will know of someone first hand who does this or that. I myself know a woman who is an alcoholic, who leaves her children with her eldest daughter a LOT The daughter has been doing this for years she is only 14 now.

The children are fed and dressed and not in ill health, for that they get to stay living with this habitual foul mouth drunk. (In fact I just heard she fell off her bike an hour ago and it looks like a broken collar bone) but she will use that to drink all the more.

There is nothing anyone can do about the child babysitting age, if they are considered responsible enough it is okay. So not only is her eldest daughter having her childhood taken from her all the kids have to live with this woman who drinks all hours.

No there is no legal age for babysitting. It is the responsibility of the parents using common sense to make the decision. It is worth bearing in mind though that a child under 16 years old cannot be prosecuted for neglect or ill treatment of children in their care. The parents/carers/guardians would be charged in that situation. However, any person who is 16 or over and who has responsibility for a person under that age could be prosecuted.

www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q455.htm

Child abuse comes in very many forms but the law says you have to prove abuse, I guess having a drunken mother 24 hours a day doesn't count because the kids are healthy and are clothed. It says nothing of their mental state of health though.

But laws need to change and changed in a way that people who do abuse kids with neglect and so on are prosecuted but that law has to be airtight so that innocent children are not taken from their parents as has happened in the past.

Am I waffling.....most probably. I just feel more because I would never nor have I ever been a bad mom and after losing the chance to have anymore it makes me angry that these horrible people can have kids.

[conbott]

no you're not waffling and thanks to everyone for responding to my thread. we have 3 children, the oldest was born with learning difficulties and our youngest has autism. it's not so straight forward but as rewarding for us as any other parent. for eg, our 2 oldest are nearly 20 and 17. the little one is 8 years old. we are struggling at the moment, financially wise, and i don't work. i'm getting upset because i'm not contributing properly to ease the situation. however, our main priority is our childrens well being and child carers, babysitters and even family members cannot give our youngest the proper care he needs.
i have tried to do little jobs in the past and it became too traumatic. his brothers are good with him but they go to college, etc, and it isn't their responsibility to look after him, it's ours. they help out in the short term but can't do much more than that.
in a round about way what i'm trying to say is parents have to balance their childrens needs against their own needs. a child doesn't have to be dirty and suffer malnutrition to be abused, which is a proven fact. like the children dippy's mentioned. what kind of mental abuse do they suffer. it's becoming a snowball effect because situations like this are becoming too commonplace.
common sense tells you not to stick your hand into a pan of boiling water because it hurts. so why knowingly put your children into potential danger. that kind of hurt never goes away.

[Dippy]

Well said conbott. Life is difficult but you seem to be doing very well and I admire you for that.

[conbott]

thanks dippy and in all honesty autisms just a word to us, one day others will realise that too. all the best to you and your family. ;D

[oh2bhappy]

Jun 11, 2008 17:47:08 GMT @fruitbat said:

I agree Exile. I think the 2 cases are very different. I hate the McCanns for what they did, and I am still sure more will come out about this case, but it is different to the other one and I really don't think it is a class issue.

I can't quite agree with that.

When I was married I lived in a four bedroom bungalow with a quarter an acre of land. I drove a Chrysler Limited Grand Voyager - which I worked hard to pay for myself. My then husband was out the house 13 hours a day - but I was married with four children... Never seen with my ex though as even when he was home, he didn't want to do family things.

I lost everthing due to ex's debt.

I now live in Social Housing as a lone-parent to four children. People's attitudes are very fixed and were horrified that a homeless single parent had been given the house.

Of course, they know me now, and I like to think that they like me and my children.

No doubt about it in my books. It's a class thing. It does depend on the car you drive!

[conbott]

i hope i'm never put in a situation like that oh2bhappy. i know single parents who are loving and want the best for their children. not all university graduates leech off parents for money, etc. in fact, a lot of the time when someone struggles to make it their life lessons go on to help others in similar situations. i'm lucky to have a good husband but we can't afford holidays and regular treats. all i can say is attitudes need to change. give people a chance to prove themselves. i admire people who try their hardest, no matter what their circumstances, not your "well to do's" who need more than one closet to hide their skeletons.
best of luck oh2bhappy to you and your kiddies.

[oh2bhappy]

Thank you very much conbott.

When the family home had to be sold to pay the debts, I rented a house in a seaside village. 72% of the houses were then holiday homes - prices highly inflated beyond the rich of locals.

As I said, sold the Chrysler, but was able to afford a Zafira. The holiday home owners would come, knowing I was living there, and never speak to me. Their children were always ill-behaved, as they usually had Nanny's or were at private school - parents really couldn't control them (I do realise this is very general and applied to about 6 families - all driving posh cars! - sorry if I sound bitter, I loved living there otherwise!).

How I became homeless - the home I rented and that we loved, and that I'd painted at got looking lovely as I was told I could stay there for many years - was sold to become a holiday house.

That was the last straw and the point I really did fall apart, I'm afraid. That was in 2005.

Prior to this I would have probably said that class didn't make a difference...

[oh2bhappy]

Have a karma, conbott.

[conbott]

thanks oh2bhappy and no you're not bitter you're just fed up of thinking everythings settled only to find "here we go again". i know we really don't have any surplus money but i'm grateful for my little family. i really do feel for someone in your situation. i know money's not everything but when every home you love keeps being taken away from you you're bound to fall apart. truly my best regards to you. one day you'll really climb back on top. by the way, i know it's fathers day but i will wear my karma with pride.

[Deleted]

Jun 15, 2008 16:48:20 GMT oh2bhappy said:

Thank you very much conbott.

When the family home had to be sold to pay the debts, I rented a house in a seaside village. 72% of the houses were then holiday homes - prices highly inflated beyond the rich of locals.

As I said, sold the Chrysler, but was able to afford a Zafira. The holiday home owners would come, knowing I was living there, and never speak to me. Their children were always ill-behaved, as they usually had Nanny's or were at private school - parents really couldn't control them (I do realise this is very general and applied to about 6 families - all driving posh cars! - sorry if I sound bitter, I loved living there otherwise!).

How I became homeless - the home I rented and that we loved, and that I'd painted at got looking lovely as I was told I could stay there for many years - was sold to become a holiday house.

That was the last straw and the point I really did fall apart, I'm afraid. That was in 2005.

Prior to this I would have probably said that class didn't make a difference...

sorry to hear about that.

I live on a street where 90% of the houses are private - some of them cost 2/3 of a million pounds. Right at the end of the street is a row of housing association homes - one of which I live in.
All of us in this row of houses gets looked down on as scum when infact nobody in any of these houses is scum whatsoever.

To make it worse, the company that maintain the street have installed street lights all down the street - they end right where the row of housing society homes starts meaning that at night time our houses, cars etc. are all in the dark.
When confronted the association told us our houses were in the dark to try and prevent crime in the area. HA!

It is hard to try and not sound bitter, but it does your head in.

[oh2bhappy]

I quite agree, Hayley, it does.

I always tell me children that no one is better than them, even if they have money, it doesn't make them better... It's hard on my oldest boy though, as he's so aware of what we have lost.