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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 17, 2006 9:58:33 GMT
I bet they said it through their teeth too
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 17, 2006 11:52:12 GMT
Well i have seen alot of mediums also and most are guessers not mediums hence why most spiritualist churches are empty most of the time... most probably delude themselves others maybe do it deliberately but the quality of mediumship on the whole is very poor Do you have the background ,knowledge and experiences to back that statement up. How many mediums have you seen,how many churches have you been to and what if anything allows you to be able to judge the quality or lack of of a medium. I am not attacking you just wondered how you could dismiss mediums and then ponder on quality. i dont know how many mediums i have seen and i dont know how many churches i've been to but i used to go weekly to spiritualist church services, and have also been to mediumship demos and non-spiritualist churchs in the UK and outside... i am very intrested in the truth of survival being known to all because i feel alot of problems today are caused by religion if only we could break down these barriers.... i can dismiss mediums i feel are being general and asking questions sometimes directly sometimes indirectly or wether they are just being general... i have been fortunate enough to witness some first class mediums but i could count them on 1 hand... i also have a large collection of literature on physical mediumship which is my main intrest and audio recordings of seances... i have had alot of proof and i am a close minded beleiver nothing would change my mind on the question of survival but my opinion is most mediums are not giving evidence of survival at least most mediums i have seen and the ones on t.v. although not all of them are doing more to discredit mediumship by that i mean the likes of John Edwards, Van Praagh, Sylvia Browne and Derek Acorah.... what do you think of mediumship today?
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Post by lowrider on Dec 17, 2006 13:56:41 GMT
Unfortunately the question " what do you think of mediumship today taken in the context of this board is hard to answer. Many sceptics,cynics and fence sitter main experience of medium ship has come through the goggle box or sites such as this,ie forums. So in that context the mediumship you see on TV is crap. It is to fraught with the need to preform for the camera and i am of the firm opinion that big money will or can corrupt anyone. TV medium or sceptic. I have seen examples of both sticking to their persona as that is what is expected of them and that what pays the wages. However most of the better mediumship i have seen has been in churches were no one in the main bothers to go to. At least not in the context of viewing figures V church goers. But many from sites such of this would never had bothered to go to more then a couple of visits and often approach the evening with an attitude of " i will show them they are all fake". Surprisingly that is often the conclusion they come too.
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 17, 2006 14:51:40 GMT
Yes i agree with you the best mediumship i have seen is in the churches and also in private trance/physical circles where like the churches their is no preassure to perform... i just hope that someday some medium on t.v. will let spirit work through them and not let their personality/ego over take it..... when you say about big money corrupting do you remember when Derek did the radio james whale show before he was as well known as he is now he seemed to be able to get good evidence now he seems to be more at home bringing gorillas through in trance, making up new phrases like "negative revesal ectoplasmic conditions", and calling people names when he is in a supposed trance condition this is all showmanship and in my opinion far removed from true mediumship.... we need mediums like Estelle Roberts, Minnie Harrison, Rita Goold, Alec Harris, Ursula Roberts, Helen Duncan, Lillian Bailey, William Eglinton, Albert Best, Florence Cook, John Sloan, Etta Wriedt, Margery Crandon to name a few....
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Post by lowrider on Dec 17, 2006 14:56:42 GMT
To be honest i am not one who is " into" the mediumship or the church community. I have other interest of greater priority, such as my bike club,so those names and what or who they are been little to me.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 17, 2006 21:28:39 GMT
The problem there Gary is that at least 3 of the mediums you mentioned are proven frauds.
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 18, 2006 15:18:23 GMT
Which 3... and i hope you don't say Margery Crandon because harrys assistant admitted later to having put the ruler in the box they had her in after being told to put it in by harry
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 18, 2006 15:20:33 GMT
Shall we talk about the famous thumb print?
The final deathblow to the Margery mediumship occurred when it was discovered that a psychic thumb print, allegedly produced by Walter, was identical to the print of a Boston dentist, Dr. Frederick Caldwell. This revelation was brought about when Dr. Caldwell admitted giving Margery a bit of wax in which his own print had been pressed.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 18, 2006 15:24:25 GMT
Which 3... and i hope you don't say Margery Crandon because harrys assistant admitted later to having put the ruler in the box they had her in after being told to put it in by harry It wasnt Harry actually. "Years later, when the Self-Liberator (Houdini) was dead, Jim Collins (Houdini's assistant) was asked about the mysterious ruler. Collins smiled wryly. 'I chucked it in the box meself. The boss told me to do it. He wanted to fix her good.'" Jim Collins CLAIMED he did it. But again where is the proof that is true? Again, the most likely explanation is that she cheated, as there is absolutely no proof that she could do anything she claimed. FACT: She was caught with a collapsable ruler. Despite claims years and years later the fact remains that she got caught, if spirit were real why didnt they reveal, or even apport the ruler away! ha! You didnt think of that did you!
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 18, 2006 15:32:18 GMT
Which 3... and i hope you don't say Margery Crandon because harrys assistant admitted later to having put the ruler in the box they had her in after being told to put it in by harry It wasnt Harry actually. "Years later, when the Self-Liberator (Houdini) was dead, Jim Collins (Houdini's assistant) was asked about the mysterious ruler. Collins smiled wryly. 'I chucked it in the box meself. The boss told me to do it. He wanted to fix her good.'" Jim Collins CLAIMED he did it. But again where is the proof that is true? Again, the most likely explanation is that she cheated, as there is absolutely no proof that she could do anything she claimed. FACT: She was caught with a collapsable ruler. Despite claims years and years later the fact remains that she got caught, if spirit were real why didnt they reveal, or even apport the ruler away! ha! You didnt think of that did you! Yes i never said it was harry i did say his assistant
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Post by lowrider on Dec 18, 2006 15:49:13 GMT
No it was the butler in the pantry with the gun.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 18, 2006 17:22:10 GMT
Yes you did, apologies.
So back to the point, why do you name KNOWN and PROVEN frauds as examples of mediums we need today?
That doesnt make sense
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 23, 2006 23:59:44 GMT
Because i really dont think they were frauds going on what i have been able to find out about them... i would say Sylvia Browne is a fraud and knows it, i would say Derek Acorah started out genuine then once he got into MH he for whatever reason started to make things up and has never stoped you only need to watch the new series of Ghost Towns to see that.... i think John Edwards is no medium but i think he believes he is he seems so sincere but i can't recall any of his shows were he gives evidence of survival... i have seen many mediums who are not famous who i dont think are mediums but they i think believe they are... but i have also seen some really good mediums who are not famous and its people like these we need to help others get the evidence of survival they need i named the famous ones so that others would know them as most mediums arnt famous and have normal everyday jobs and dont want to attract attention to themselves,they just give the evidence of survival in their spare time to those who need it
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 24, 2006 0:14:54 GMT
Gary name one medium you have seen face to face who you believe is a fraud
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Post by mesmo on Dec 24, 2006 0:42:59 GMT
Because i really dont think they were frauds going on what i have been able to find out about them... i would say Sylvia Browne is a fraud and knows it, i would say Derek Acorah started out genuine then once he got into MH he for whatever reason started to make things up and has never stoped you only need to watch the new series of Ghost Towns to see that.... i think John Edwards is no medium but i think he believes he is he seems so sincere but i can't recall any of his shows were he gives evidence of survival... i have seen many mediums who are not famous who i dont think are mediums but they i think believe they are... but i have also seen some really good mediums who are not famous and its people like these we need to help others get the evidence of survival they need i named the famous ones so that others would know them as most mediums arnt famous and have normal everyday jobs and dont want to attract attention to themselves,they just give the evidence of survival in their spare time to those who need it I intended to give this forum a break over Christmas but could not let your post pass by without comment. Sorry Gary- (IMO) there is not one iota of evidence whatsover that we survive after death - not one - the information from Mediums cannot be trusted as evidence - my belief in an after life is just one of faith - I cant prove it and feel sure these so called psychics will not either - you obviously want to believe the Mediums are the real deal but I would ask you to look at what they are saying in the cold light of day.
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gary
Glint in fathers eye
Posts: 25
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Post by gary on Dec 24, 2006 9:05:44 GMT
what is the point in nameing the non-famous ones who no one knows?
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Dec 24, 2006 10:29:51 GMT
It would show me that you an actually spot a fraud, despite your obvious naivity in thissubject, and someone who is not famous to most, may be of great interest to me.
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