On the other thread you have accused Adrian of running away, I don't see it as that. We are all very different people and have varying levels of understanding, patience etc.
LR and Kendra are strong characters and are wise to your ways, can take everything you throw at them and can continue to come back at you.
Not everyone is like that, you have to admit that you have more than likely scared many noobs from the forum with your forthright attitude!
I don't know Adrian, but I would be fairly certain that he hasn't run away from this, I just think that he has become tired saying the same thing.
I want proof of life after death but I am willing to sit and listen and experiment to find this and not shout down every word spoken by a medium.
I am no way a soft touch, stupid, gullible or believe everything I see, hear or read but I am willing to give anyone a fair crack of the whip.
I believe Adrian lives in your neck of the woods, perhaps you should meet up and go over this face to face and see what he has to offer!
i11.Report this post to Admin please.com/albums/a155/guidedspirithunter/t275699604_44983_4.gif[/IMG]
Hope your satisfied in making someone who has a belief feel like sh*t!
It has nothing to do with reveling in making people feel like sh*t, its to do with making claims and then justifying those claims and backing them up.
No it is not. A belief is that. Go into the street and abuse a Jew or a follower of Islam and see what you get. Belief should not be abused,abuse the practice of mediumship but not someones faith.
It has nothing to do with reveling in making people feel like sh*t, its to do with making claims and then justifying those claims and backing them up.
No it is not. A belief is that. Go into the street and abuse a Jew or a follower of Islam and see what you get. Belief should not be abused,abuse the practice of mediumship but not someones faith.
Now you're confusing me, I can abuse mediumship but not faith? I thought the practice of mediumship WAS one of faith and belief? And I am not abusing anyone for having Faith, just asking for them to justify making outlandish claims that they can talk to the dead. I would ask the same of any individual making that claim, be them Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, or Church of the Mighty Glowing Frog.
Belief,a principle or idea considered to be true. Belief does not require support in the same way that many people believe in a God it is a belief. Hence my comment ,someone can have a belief and i see no reason that anyone has the right to question or demean that. Debate the mechanics of mediumship,not all mediums have a belief in the religious sense. Hence this statement you made was incorrect, i thought the practice of mediumship WAS one of faith and belief? Or at least a little all encompassing .
You may be able to justify your lies, but if i was you i simply couldnt live with the guilt, you must have a cold heart if you can justify your fraud with your delusions of grandeur.
You are nothing special, you are not magical, the dead dont talk to you, you do not have a gift from god.
You are just a normal bloke like the rest of us.
And when you and people like you lose this god complex, the world will be a better place.
What I dislike about this debate is how personal some of these comments have become. For example, in one of Jon's posts, above, he refers to Whitewolf as a "liar" and a "fraud". Jon as a sceptic advocates the use of the scientific method, yet as far as I'm aware he hasn't even met Whitewolf, so these accusations are anything but scientific conclusions...
As I've posted in another thread (and got in hot water for), I don't believe everybody who claims to be a medium is a crook. There could be other reasons why they hold such beliefs, which are very real to them.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 18, 2006 14:13:40 GMT
I understand that you want to believe Jon I do!
But just what proof do you want?
Proof that when you die life goes on, its very simple really, it is also the tag line of every medium working in this country.
On the other thread you have accused Adrian of running away, I don't see it as that. We are all very different people and have varying levels of understanding, patience etc.
Perhaps, but maybe Adrian didnt like the fact that i was getting to the truth of what he does, so he decided to run away, ihave seen it before many times.
LR and Kendra are strong characters and are wise to your ways, can take everything you throw at them and can continue to come back at you.
LR and Kendra are both strong characters, they have to be, but they are also in my experience honest people. people who have a genuine belief that what they do is real, i can respect that belief even if i think it is delusional
Not everyone is like that, you have to admit that you have more than likely scared many noobs from the forum with your forthright attitude!
Perhaps that is true, but if certain people want to live in a world where everyone agrees, and no one argues then they can go bugger off to the airy fairy forums like the Derek Acorah forum.
I don't know Adrian, but I would be fairly certain that he hasn't run away from this, I just think that he has become tired saying the same thing.
Maybe he should try saying something else then, the tired old excuses bore all of us.
I want proof of life after death but I am willing to sit and listen and experiment to find this and not shout down every word spoken by a medium.
I have sat and listened, i have gone out there and investigated. I have done as much as i can to do this.
Hell i even completed a bloody mediumship course top of the class in my journey.
I am no way a soft touch, stupid, gullible or believe everything I see, hear or read but I am willing to give anyone a fair crack of the whip.
Good for you, and i am exactly the same
I believe Adrian lives in your neck of the woods, perhaps you should meet up and go over this face to face and see what he has to offer!
I have offered this, he did not want to read for me until next year.
As much as Kendra and i argue and fight, she bloody well put everything on the line to try and teach me, educate me, and finally convince me of mediumship. Ok she never suceeded, but she did her best, and that i respect.
And along the way Kendra developed many new critical thoughts and has evolved from a naive, gullible stereotype woo, into a strong, knowedgable and slightly sceptical woo.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I'm pretty sure nobody on here was abusing whitewolfs beliefs, apart from the fact that he believes he can talk to the dead, and if he or anyone else is upset that I disagree with his claims of paranormal abilities then Im afraid thats just the way it is when people make those sort of outlandish claims.
Do we now stop critisising the likes of Acorah because we may "make him feel like sh*t" because we are critising his "beliefs"? (He believes he is entitled to your money.....) LW, when you mention "Go into the street and abuse a Jew or a follower of Islam and see what you get" you are obviously implying I have abused someones religion. Believing you can talk to the dead is NOT a religion, it is a claim of a paranormal ability, THAT is what I question.
If a Muslim were to approach me and inform me that he had the ability to manifest boiled eggs from his ears whilst playing an invisible harpsichord, and I said he couldn't, I would not belittling his belief in Allah, only his ridiculous claims of paranormal ability.
this is a hard one to comment on, so bear with me guys. i have to say i completely agree with mmc and jons opinions, but i think its a shame that whitewolf feels the need to leave the forum because of things that have been said. Im what is known as a fence sitter, but i would LOVE to be proved wrong, and have proof that my grandfathers and other relatives are not dead but merely in another place. and until i have been given proof or this i cannot believe that. If whitewolf and other mediums like himself believe they can talk to the dead, thats fine, but people like me, and mmc should not have to feel criticised for feeling this way. All we ask for is proof, not someone just saying they have this ability, but ACTUAL proof. So rather than leaving, maybe whitewolf should have tried to give us that proof, or at least try and understand why we feel the way we do, rather than simply giving up. That just makes him look like he cant prove anything, and so we assume he has no gift. and i dont see how we can be wrong just by thinking that, it seems to be a natural conclusion to come to. To any medium out there i would say this, i DO respect your belief in your ability, but help me out here! Show me what you can do, dont give me a hard time for not believing in something i cant see, or have yet to see.
for the record, i have never run from anything. Its the attitude and constant compariosn of mediums and f***ing drug dealers. Thats what got me, i refuse to associate myself either face to face or in a forum with anyone so down right negative. Its your strong desire to hear from your loved ones thats driving force. Not mediums or psychics. I am simply not just gonna hang around and be compared to that. Who do you think you are? wow you have a site? whooppeee. You slag off honest people, kind caring people. You have no right to do this. I have no ego. I have nothing to gain hoping to be begged to stay? what a twatish remark that was. Its often said people accuse others when they mirror the accusers thoughts and feelings. What do you see in me Jon? You.? Is that why you had a nasty aggressive vindictive attack on me?. You havent and never will hit a nerve with me. Never, i dont care what your opinions are to be honest. Because you will always contradict yourself. Nobody with your frame of mind and aggresive ego will ever be satisfied. So i aint running, i have nothin to run from. I cant see the point in hanging around a forum that supposedly offers open views, no personal attacks and intelligent posts. When all it does is use the forum for a personal agenda to attack honest people. Irrespective of our beliefs you accuse and place all in the same category. Thats unforgiveable.
i say the same things coz the arguments are always the same. Its a blatant refusal to even consider whats said. As for the bible saying its wrong to conatct the dead. the bible has an always will be open to interperation. But, it also tells you there is no death. So if we dont die, we cant be talking to the dead, as we still live. I understand the needs and desires fot proof of existence beyond, but there are ways in which it works. But of sceptics are not aware of conditions and links etc etc. They even refuse to accept thats a fundamental part of spirit communication. So when Mr Randi knocks on some psychics door asking to be put thru, i will laugh my socks off. as the claim will be "psychic claims to talk with sceptic from beyond the grave" i bet my pension its gonna happen. Just some advice to people tahst all, just put your opinion across, leave out the boxing everyone off as one. Dont get personal or aggresive. I will find it hard to even respect Jon again. Classing mediums in the same ilk as drug dealers. Jon try a different approach ok, forget grannies, defenceless people, conned people, victims. Try using proper stats, documented proof, not just The big and authorititave opinion of someone who is sceptic of life as a whole. You ask for proof from the mediums, if you ask you should be able to provide evidence yourself.
for the record, i have never run from anything. Its the attitude and constant compariosn of mediums and f***ing drug dealers. Thats what got me, i refuse to associate myself either face to face or in a forum with anyone so down right negative. Its your strong desire to hear from your loved ones thats driving force. Not mediums or psychics. I am simply not just gonna hang around and be compared to that. Who do you think you are? wow you have a site? whooppeee. You slag off honest people, kind caring people. You have no right to do this. I have no ego. I have nothing to gain hoping to be begged to stay? what a twatish remark that was. Its often said people accuse others when they mirror the accusers thoughts and feelings. What do you see in me Jon? You.? Is that why you had a nasty aggressive vindictive attack on me?. You havent and never will hit a nerve with me. Never, i dont care what your opinions are to be honest. Because you will always contradict yourself. Nobody with your frame of mind and aggresive ego will ever be satisfied. So i aint running, i have nothin to run from. I cant see the point in hanging around a forum that supposedly offers open views, no personal attacks and intelligent posts. When all it does is use the forum for a personal agenda to attack honest people. Irrespective of our beliefs you accuse and place all in the same category. Thats unforgiveable.
Here-here! I wasn't going to post in this thread originally, but from what whitewolf has stated in his posts, I couldn't agree more with. Targeting and attacking honest, kind people. You simply cannot tar everybody with the same brush. A true skeptic is someone who has their own opinions yet he/or she respects the views and opinions of others, but so called skeptics on here are not, Jon, you are very opinionated and don't care for anyone elses opinions if opposite to your own, to me that's a bigot, for want of a better word. This is my opinion.
Bigot \Big"ot\, n. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.
A definition that could well be applied to many "Mediums"
is everyone missing the bloody point here? how would sceptics feel if i claimed that all sceptics are like S.T.D carriers. That they are dirty and infected with a disease that infects nice innocent people. Come on, how would you feel? This was the stance Herr Donnis was taking. He should post an opinion yes, but leave the sick and below the belt comaparison to drig dealers and addicts out of the equation.
Why would anyone in their right mind give evidence, especially to someone that looks down on people with such an air of superiority. At least in my faith, we treat people with respect. Irrespective of belief or opinions. This is why i feel let down.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 18, 2006 22:51:08 GMT
for the record, i have never run from anything.
You ran from here, probably hoping to get a load of people begging you to stay and so on. This is not the MH forum
Its the attitude and constant compariosn of mediums and f***ing drug dealers. Thats what got me, i refuse to associate myself either face to face or in a forum with anyone so down right negative.
Yet here you still are. I repeat, I compare fake mediums to drug dealers, if you find me a real one then i will not compare them to them
Its your strong desire to hear from your loved ones thats driving force. Not mediums or psychics.
Thats correct, and its mediums and psychics who prey on this desire
You slag off honest people, kind caring people.
Never. I never slag off honest people. The fact you claim something you refuse to prove indicates to me you are not honest.
You have no right to do this. I have no ego.
I have every right to do that, under the laws of this country i am allowed.
As for you having no ego. Well you are the one who joined this forum declaring "I am a medium and i talk to the dead"
That is ego mate, sorry to say.
I have nothing to gain hoping to be begged to stay? what a twatish remark that was.
Its all about your ego. Only a egotistical person would post a "farewell" message, but not ever delete their own account. lol It smacks of being needy and desperate of adulation, back to the ego again
Its often said people accuse others when they mirror the accusers thoughts and feelings. What do you see in me Jon?
I see someone who has realised that others can see through them. You have been found out, and you have exposed your own insecurities.
Is that why you had a nasty aggressive vindictive attack on me?.
I have not attacked you once. I have only replied to your comments.
You havent and never will hit a nerve with me.
Your rant says differently, your regular 1am drunken rants say different mate
Never, i dont care what your opinions are to be honest.
Yet still for someone who had apparently left this forum you are still posting.
You DO care what i think, and what others think, as it is very much part of what drives your ego to do what you do. When yo come face to face with people who do not pander to you and treat you like a god, it hurts you. It hurts you to think that people just see you as a normal human being and not someone with magical god like powers
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I apologised when i went a bit far with the JW thread, i have seen nothing here to say sorry for offenending me. Jon`s site, Jon`s rules, Jon`s victory. Nobody has a chance, especially when its a medium.