I'll probably get thrown out of this forum for what I say, but hey, lets see how open this forum actually is for open opinions.
Where do we start?
I was born with a facial disfigurement. I was picked on at school about my appearance (yes, weren't we all). But by the time I was getting towards my late teens, yes, trying to find a wife did become something I dreamt about.
Understandably, I had no luck.
Found friends, nothing more. Longest time spent dating someone was one date (and no nothing afterwards).
By my late 20's thought I'd go to a Soul/Psychic expo - hey, what did I have to loose. Something to while away a day. A bit of a laugh.
As a natural skeptic, I had no expectations about what I would hear. And, as per all the other comments on this list, there were many BAD psychics out there. Readings such as "you will have a challenging few months ahead", "someone you know is in pain". And just the lies "You will have a significant change in your work situation towards the end of the year", "beware the man with the blonde hair that will will cause you financial stress". We all know what they do.
And yes, fleeced I was, but not big time. People spend more on booze / smokes / gambling in a a month. Never thought anything more about it.
10 years later, at the age of 40, I was planning my first overseas holiday. Saw a little sign, "come in and get a reading today". No big flashing lights, advertisements, just a small building hired for a day with a few retailers and 2 psychics.
Hey, I'm at a loose end for an hour to two, perhaps it could just be a good insurance.
So, in I go. Not expecting anything, just walking around, unimpressed with crystal sales etc etc, just about to walk out, a coordinator walks up, why not have a chat over there with this guy. Not expensive, 15 minutes, will cost you less than 1/2 a tank of fuel.
In 15 minutes, he had described me to a tee. He told me where I was going, and the events around that journey. He then said that in 2 months times, I was going to meet my wife, he told me where I was going to meet her, he told me her surname, her nationality, she was only temporarily visiting the country. None of it related to my Journey. He told me my life would change forever, and he told me how it would change.
Given my history (25 years of never having a partner), given my disfigurement, I left feeling ripped off.
Came back from my holiday, and yes, met that lady, everything as stated was correct. I did not change my behavior in any way to meet this person. There were particular financial and personal circumstances around this person, that could not be guessed. This lady looked like a model, and its not just my opinion. If you put up our photos together, you would simply laugh and say one word "No".
Marrying a foreigner is never straightforward, predicting all the issues I would face for her particular circumstance is no easy feat. After several months I found the catch - she had a huge debt to her employer, almost a half million dollars, which had to be paid before she could live in my country, before I was able to marry her. (No, not a Nigerian scam)
Hey, what could I loose, so I found out where this psychic worked, and asked if I could get another reading.
Another reading - the answer, yes, it will sort itself out. You will end up paying a fraction of the debt. I went back and did my sums, redid her debt sums. Felt really scammed. I owned 10% of what was owed. How could this happen? So, I ignored the advice, kept the relationship going for another 2 years, she had to go home, kept the connection going. An exponential increase in overseas travel, as predicted. (travelled OS once in my life, now regularly travelling long haul OS travel). Easily predicted?
My finances took a significant turn. Hell, live dangerously, went back. He said what are you waiting for? I told you before. So, we went back to her employer to get a payout figure. And yes, you guessed it.
All this started more than 10 years ago. And yes, we are still married.
I concur with the general thrust of this forum. Beware of psychics. Don't accept reading generalisations. Avoid psychics with props, tarot cards. Don't get sucked in, don't waste your money. I think 92% of psychics are frauds. I think another 4% are genuine, but just not tuned into you / or misunderstanding the messages. If you find one of the last 4% who is able to give a targetted, consequential and meaningful reading, which is very rare, then you are very lucky.
I'll probably get thrown out of this forum for what I say, but hey, lets see how open this forum actually is for open opinions.
Straight away you have pre-conceived opinions about what we are here and how we will react to what you say, this is a bad start. I have no problem with people having different opinions than me, and as the only person capable of chucking anyone off this forum, I have no intention of doing that, and in fact I have had some pretty horrific abuse on here from psychics and believers and even then i will try to debate them and get them to calm down.
10 years later, at the age of 40, I was planning my first overseas holiday. Saw a little sign, "come in and get a reading today". No big flashing lights, advertisements, just a small building hired for a day with a few retailers and 2 psychics.
Where was this?
So, in I go. Not expecting anything, just walking around, unimpressed with crystal sales etc etc, just about to walk out, a coordinator walks up, why not have a chat over there with this guy. Not expensive, 15 minutes, will cost you less than 1/2 a tank of fuel.
So say £25?
In 15 minutes, he had described me to a tee. He told me where I was going, and the events around that journey. He then said that in 2 months times, I was going to meet my wife, he told me where I was going to meet her, he told me her surname, her nationality, she was only temporarily visiting the country. None of it related to my Journey. He told me my life would change forever, and he told me how it would change.
Given the fallibility of human memory, and how in a court of low it is literally the lowest form of evidence, I assume you have a recording of the reading? It just helps to understand how things were worded, the context, and so on.
Came back from my holiday, and yes, met that lady, everything as stated was correct. I did not change my behavior in any way to meet this person. There were particular financial and personal circumstances around this person, that could not be guessed. This lady looked like a model, and its not just my opinion. If you put up our photos together, you would simply laugh and say one word "No".
I am very happy you met someone.
Marrying a foreigner is never straightforward, predicting all the issues I would face for her particular circumstance is no easy feat. After several months I found the catch - she had a huge debt to her employer, almost a half million dollars, which had to be paid before she could live in my country, before I was able to marry her. (No, not a Nigerian scam)
Blimey!
Another reading - the answer, yes, it will sort itself out. You will end up paying a fraction of the debt. I went back and did my sums, redid her debt sums. Felt really scammed. I owned 10% of what was owed. How could this happen? So, I ignored the advice, kept the relationship going for another 2 years, she had to go home, kept the connection going. An exponential increase in overseas travel, as predicted. (travelled OS once in my life, now regularly travelling long haul OS travel). Easily predicted?
Did your girlfriend know the psychic.
My finances took a significant turn. Hell, live dangerously, went back. He said what are you waiting for? I told you before. So, we went back to her employer to get a payout figure. And yes, you guessed it.
All this started more than 10 years ago. And yes, we are still married.
I concur with the general thrust of this forum. Beware of psychics. Don't accept reading generalisations. Avoid psychics with props, tarot cards. Don't get sucked in, don't waste your money. I think 92% of psychics are frauds. I think another 4% are genuine, but just not tuned into you / or misunderstanding the messages. If you find one of the last 4% who is able to give a targetted, consequential and meaningful reading, which is very rare, then you are very lucky.
Steve
I am not really sure what the point of the story is to be honest.
If anything i suspect that this psychic and your wife knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up from the start? But perhaps that is overly cynical to me.
Ok a few things, NO ONE can predict the future because it hasn't happened yet.
At best you are mis-remembering a few things the psychic said, coincidences made you retro fit things they said and without a recording it is hard to say either way.
Your story is an interesting one, and I have to say there is part of me that wonders if this woman only ever got with you because of the money, you yourself admit that that was a catch, and perhaps if you did not have the disfigurement, and she did not owe 500k, would she have come after you? This has cost you a fortune, a foreign woman is now living in the UK/Australia? I assume after getting a passport etc because of being married to you?
Regardless of all of that, this doesn't really seem to me a story that backs up something a psychic said. If anything this psychic has cost you an absolute fortune because of what they said, may have encouraged you to get involved with a woman who owed a s*itload of money which in turn you have ended up paying off.
Yeah I am a bit stumped on this one as I am not sure what to say. The psychic never predicted the future, that is impossible, and if you even say it is possible then that means free will does not exist, and life is pointless.
I have no interest in throwing you off the forum, and I would be interested to hear more.
At the end of the day if you are happy with the woman, you are not paying off any more debts and that whole thing is long past, then I guess it is all ok now right?
If you are still paying off her debts then sorry but you are a mug of monumental proportions.
Also one last thing, did you copy and paste your entire post from somewhere else? As a webmaster there are little giveaways, if not my mistake.
Straight away you have pre-conceived opinions about what we are here and how we will react to what you say, this is a bad start. I have no problem with people having different opinions than me, and as the only person capable of chucking anyone off this forum, I have no intention of doing that, and in fact I have had some pretty horrific abuse on here from psychics and believers and even then i will try to debate them and get them to calm down.
Fair enough, I don't envy your job!
Where was this?
This is in Australia.
So say £25?
$AU20
Given the fallibility of human memory, and how in a court of low it is literally the lowest form of evidence, I assume you have a recording of the reading? It just helps to understand how things were worded, the context, and so on.
This was purely on the spur of the moment. Just driving along in a random part of my town, I wasn't intending to be a Ghostbuster type to try and get into a situation where I could apply scientific theory as to the validity of what I was about to experience. How could there have been any pre-contriving? There were comments he made about the trip that I could not have predicted. In regards to what he described about me, these were personal things that I only knew, and had not spoken to anyone about. Also, he spoke of things about certain aspects of my future wife as well that I only discovered a long time afterward.
Blimey!
Yes, many sleepless nights.
Did your girlfriend know the psychic.
Are you joking with me? I didn't even know the lady at that time. When we met it was by blind date, so it wasn't that I could say, hey, I know that lady's surname so I want to meet her. Also, when we did meet, I thought it was going to just be another "one date" experience, and at the end of it had written off the idea of meeting her again.
My finances took a significant turn. Hell, live dangerously, went back. He said what are you waiting for? I told you before. So, we went back to her employer to get a payout figure. And yes, you guessed it.
I am not really sure what the point of the story is to be honest.
My point is that I truly believe that a small percent of the "spiritualist" community, that do have real psychic skills, are able to provide correct advice on where one's life may be headed. My story is a testament to this. And it is only advice that they provide. You can choose to ignore this advice as you wish.
If anything i suspect that this psychic and your wife knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up from the start? But perhaps that is overly cynical to me.
Yes, overly cynical.
Ok a few things, NO ONE can predict the future because it hasn't happened yet.
How do you explain what happened to me then? I dream't it all? That we're all in some kind of Matrix where the past doesn't exist? Only the now? That the past and truth evolves as time progresses?
At best you are mis-remembering a few things the psychic said, coincidences made you retro fit things they said and without a recording it is hard to say either way.
Your comments are incorrect. I have an excellent memory. Especially when I think I'm being scammed.
Your story is an interesting one, and I have to say there is part of me that wonders if this woman only ever got with you because of the money, you yourself admit that that was a catch, and perhaps if you did not have the disfigurement, and she did not owe 500k, would she have come after you?
Interesting. Firstly, we would never have met unless she incurred the debt in the first place. Secondly, I too was concerned about this - so many stories of people getting married because the woman (or man) wanting money. I spent many months sussing her out, I knew her motivations, money wasn't one of them. Having someone close / a family were her motivators.
This has cost you a fortune, a foreign woman is now living in the UK/Australia? I assume after getting a passport etc because of being married to you?
Gaining citizenship didn't come into it. She had a great job at home. If anything, she lost a lot by leaving her home country.
Regardless of all of that, this doesn't really seem to me a story that backs up something a psychic said.
That's just your view. My life is true to me, gaining some inspiration and checkpoints along the way helped, even though most of the time I ignored the advice given, which ended up being to my detriment by choosing to ignore aspects as I did.
If anything this psychic has cost you an absolute fortune because of what they said, may have encouraged you to get involved with a woman who owed a s*itload of money which in turn you have ended up paying off.
No, the psychic cost me very little. It was MY choice to fund the debt, and thanks to good fortune, I managed to amazingly make a lot of money in a short period of time to cover what ended up being a much, much smaller amount than 1/2 mil. This was what I previously indicated.
Yeah I am a bit stumped on this one as I am not sure what to say. The psychic never predicted the future, that is impossible, and if you even say it is possible then that means free will does not exist, and life is pointless.
People still have free choice. Some things can never happen. I could never be an Astronaut. This is very predictable. The rest is a series of pathways of choice. I could have chosen to accept the psychics advice, and my life would have been very different. No, I chose the opposite, ignored the advice. Yes, I still got married, but perhaps would have married earlier if I'd made other choices along the path. Very interesting idea about choice/predictability once brought up in Isaac Asimov's novels. I'm not saying my current ideas are based on a novellist. I think we always have choice. Driving towards a wall at high speed, you always have a choice to brake. But if you decide to brake within 1 metre of the wall, you still have made a choice, but the results are still predictable and unavoidable.
I have no interest in throwing you off the forum, and I would be interested to hear more.
I debate these theories with my skeptic friends as well. I think the diversity of life/the universe is open, not necessarily bound by what we currently have as our terms of reference. People did eventually agree that the world was round, and everything didn't just evolve around the earth. I agree that no hair brained idea should be considered as "Truth", and yes, there are many barmy ideas out there. But when confronted by a situation that could not be manipulated, with things that I only knew, with events that only impacted me, with the knowledge of how I got to where I am now, I have sufficient proof that there is more to this world than what you can see and test with scientific theory.
Put this another way, how can you prove to yourself that you exist? Through feelings? Through senses? So what summates all of these? Experience is this summation. But can you then go back and scientifically prove that that your Experiences are correct? Perhaps you never actually had that feeling, you just imagined it? Therefore if you can't rely upon your feelings or your senses, how then can you judge that your Experience is real? Alternatively, do you judge whether you exist by the things around you? By what you have achieved? But if you are unable to scientifically accredit your feelings and senses, then how scientifically accurate are you able to judge your own existence by those things around you? Isn't this what drives paranoia? Isn't this what John Nash suffered from?
I'm no expert on existence, is Life just Cause and Effect? If Cause cannot be clearly determined or quantified, but there is still Effect, does this undermine the nature of what Cause is? Or are we saying that Effects occur without Causes?
My life was going to happen the way it did regardless. I would still have gone on the blind date, I would still have made the choices I did. Yes, I still had choice, but I chose unwisely at those decision points. Having someone tell me beforehand what was going to happen doesn't alter the Effect that occurred, nor its Causes. The fact that the Causes and Effects in my case were thus independent of what I was told simply tells me that there is an unseen parallel process that was able to mirror the outcome of what I experienced.
At the end of the day if you are happy with the woman, you are not paying off any more debts and that whole thing is long past, then I guess it is all ok now right?
Well, not exactly passed. Financially I'm fine. However, now being married, my life forever changed due to what happened.
If you are still paying off her debts then sorry but you are a mug of monumental proportions.
Also one last thing, did you copy and paste your entire post from somewhere else? As a webmaster there are little giveaways, if not my mistake.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Aug 20, 2018 6:21:17 GMT
Hi I hope you dont mind, i edited your post as you had messed up the quotes and it was hard to tell what you had wrote and what you were replying to. If you are not familiar to BB Forums, then try and just reply without quoting.
Given the fallibility of human memory, and how in a court of low it is literally the lowest form of evidence, I assume you have a recording of the reading? It just helps to understand how things were worded, the context, and so on.
This was purely on the spur of the moment. Just driving along in a random part of my town, I wasn't intending to be a Ghostbuster type to try and get into a situation where I could apply scientific theory as to the validity of what I was about to experience. How could there have been any pre-contriving? There were comments he made about the trip that I could not have predicted. In regards to what he described about me, these were personal things that I only knew, and had not spoken to anyone about. Also, he spoke of things about certain aspects of my future wife as well that I only discovered a long time afterward.
The whole point of the trick of mediumship/psychic ability is the ability to convince someone you told them something you had no way of knowing, this is the trick, if the psychic cant perform this basic trick then they wont be a very good psychic will they. Now you dont know how the trick works, you are no different to someone who walks into a magic show and a magician makes an elephant disappear, and you have no idea how it was done. By assuming you are infallible that is the first mistake.
The psychology of this kind of trickery is very deep. But without a recording, there is no way i can break down exactly how they did it to show you. But in analysing over 2500 readings over 15 years, after having over 300 face to face readings, I have never not once not been able to show exactly how it was done, I literally have a 100% record on exposing the methods. So for me to just accept that an amateur on these things was not fooled is a stretch, because i know how incredibly easy it is to fool someone, even when making future predictions which then seen to come true.
Did your girlfriend know the psychic.
Are you joking with me? I didn't even know the lady at that time. When we met it was by blind date, so it wasn't that I could say, hey, I know that lady's surname so I want to meet her. Also, when we did meet, I thought it was going to just be another "one date" experience, and at the end of it had written off the idea of meeting her again.
I dont believe that your girlfriend knew the psychic, however it is a question that has to be asked. Can I ask the ethnicity of your girlfriend and that of the psychic?
I am not really sure what the point of the story is to be honest.
My point is that I truly believe that a small percent of the "spiritualist" community, that do have real psychic skills, are able to provide correct advice on where one's life may be headed. My story is a testament to this. And it is only advice that they provide. You can choose to ignore this advice as you wish.
And you are welcome to believe that, but there is no actual proof here, just one person who was convinced. Your story is not really testament to the claim. Especially since there is no actual evidence of anything you have claimed, no recordings etc.
As skeptics we cant just blindly accept stories as I am sure you can understand, that is why we ask questions.
Ok a few things, NO ONE can predict the future because it hasn't happened yet.
How do you explain what happened to me then? I dream't it all? That we're all in some kind of Matrix where the past doesn't exist? Only the now? That the past and truth evolves as time progresses?
You are asking me to explain something, yet i have nothing to analyse.
If you had the recording of the reading I 100% guarantee you I could explain it all with ease. But i dont have that. So all I am left with is a story on the internet that seems at best coincidental. But no one can predict the future, it is just not in the realms of possibility on any level.
At best you are mis-remembering a few things the psychic said, coincidences made you retro fit things they said and without a recording it is hard to say either way.
Your comments are incorrect. I have an excellent memory. Especially when I think I'm being scammed.
No, human memory is terrible, even someone who believes they have an excellent memory will really have a terrible memory. Whenever there is an incident and police take reports from people, everyone will always have different stories of what happened. This is nothing to be ashamed of, it is just how the human mind works.
I look at a cloud and see a bunny, you might look at the same cloud and see a dragon.
My comments are not only correct, they are backed up by a wealth of scientific evidence when it comes to memory.
Now that is not to say your recollection is wrong. What I am saying is that without the original reading to analyse, we have no idea of exactly what was said, how it was said, the trickery used and so on. If the reading was 2 minutes long and they just listed off everything that would happen as simple statements, that is one thing. If the reading was 20 minutes etc, and they actually said a s*it load of stuff, and 90% was wrong and had no meaning to you, and you only remember the 10% that actually came true, then that is much more likely.
Regardless of all of that, this doesn't really seem to me a story that backs up something a psychic said.
That's just your view. My life is true to me, gaining some inspiration and checkpoints along the way helped, even though most of the time I ignored the advice given, which ended up being to my detriment by choosing to ignore aspects as I did.
I am not saying your life is not true to you. If you are happy then who am i to say it was built on a lie, and even if it was built on a lie, who cares if you are happy now, that is the most important thing.
If anything this psychic has cost you an absolute fortune because of what they said, may have encouraged you to get involved with a woman who owed a s*itload of money which in turn you have ended up paying off.
No, the psychic cost me very little. It was MY choice to fund the debt, and thanks to good fortune, I managed to amazingly make a lot of money in a short period of time to cover what ended up being a much, much smaller amount than 1/2 mil. This was what I previously indicated.
But it was still a lot of money, and perhaps you got lucky and made some good money, but like it or not you spent a lot of money, in part because when you met this woman you remembered what a psychic told you.
Put this another way, how can you prove to yourself that you exist? Through feelings? Through senses? So what summates all of these? Experience is this summation. But can you then go back and scientifically prove that that your Experiences are correct? Perhaps you never actually had that feeling, you just imagined it? Therefore if you can't rely upon your feelings or your senses, how then can you judge that your Experience is real? Alternatively, do you judge whether you exist by the things around you? By what you have achieved? But if you are unable to scientifically accredit your feelings and senses, then how scientifically accurate are you able to judge your own existence by those things around you? Isn't this what drives paranoia? Isn't this what John Nash suffered from?
But my existence is not in question, and neither can it be replicated by clever trickery. We must always be careful when using comparisons as a way to somehow give the claims of psychics some kind of credibility. Always stick to the original claim, and analyse that. Otherwise you go down ridiculous roads which dont answer anything.
As for my question about copy and pasting your post. Just the way it was posted some of the code of your post would suggest it was written somewhere else first and then copied to here.
Some people will write posts on Microsoft Word for example and then copy it on here so they can use the spell check etc
I did have lots of problems editing and getting the quotes to work.
Ok, so to answer some of your questions.
I was already aware of how magicians work and how people can be manipulated to provide clues as to what they will say next.
However, if I sit there and say nothing, and he tells me information, how did he do the trick? By watching my eyebrows or watching an ear twitch?
The psychic was Australian, and my wife Japanese.
The reading was short 10-15 minutes, 10% was wrong, but that was just perception. How I see that I do things and how other people may interpret how I might do things can obviously vary.
How could he have known the surname (Ok, the intonation was out aka Smythe versus Smith) when neither the lady, myself or the psychic had ever met? Its not like he could have used any magic on me to get the surname when I didn't even know it myself. Ok, perhaps you will say Smythe is not the same as Smith (or equivalent), and therefore it again is proof that he is a fraud. Fair comment, but in my view, it is very close.
Perhaps the psychic business is different over in the UK, more like big magician shows that travel the countryside aka John Edwards.
We can beg to differ. You've had your experiences, I've had mine. I'm not asking you to believe my story. You know what you know. I know what I know. I am just writing it as it occurred.
Lastly, no I did not write it in word beforehand. Just wrote it direct into the post.
I was already aware of how magicians work and how people can be manipulated to provide clues as to what they will say next.
However, if I sit there and say nothing, and he tells me information, how did he do the trick? By watching my eyebrows or watching an ear twitch?
Did you know that psychics actually prefer their victims to say less. In fact many will order their victim to only answer yes or no. This allows them to control the reading and frame it. I wrote some articles a while back on the main site badpsychics.com explaining how this works. And also although you mockingly talk about eyebrows and ear twitches, these "micro-expressions" in fact give away a lot to anyone who understands what to look for.
Being aware of how a magician works, is not the same as understanding how they perform the trick and why they do the things they do. And again without a recording there is no way to know how much you gave away, I suspect you gave a way a lot but simply do not realise as you are relying on memory of an incident that happened well over a decade ago, and a reading you only considered to be real long after it happened.
The reading was short 10-15 minutes, 10% was wrong, but that was just perception. How I see that I do things and how other people may interpret how I might do things can obviously vary.
Now you are claiming that 10% was wrong. How do you come by that percentage? You are remembering something from 10+ years ago. It is simply not realistic to put a number on what was right and wrong when you have no way to measure it.
Even if you believe you have an excellent memory. This is simply not feasible, especially when you consider the scientific fact that the claim of psychic ability is statistically improbable.
How could he have known the surname (Ok, the intonation was out aka Smythe versus Smith) when neither the lady, myself or the psychic had ever met?
Ok so he got the surname wrong, and you made what they said fit. So like it or not, you have retrofitted something the psychic said. EVen if similar, you have made it fit. Again another trick of the psychic
What was the name? Was it a traditional Japanese surname that is unlikely to be guess? Or do you mean it is literally smith?
Its not like he could have used any magic on me to get the surname when I didn't even know it myself.
Ok, perhaps you will say Smythe is not the same as Smith (or equivalent), and therefore it again is proof that he is a fraud. Fair comment, but in my view, it is very close.
Yes it is close but it is still wrong. Being close is not what a psychic claims. They claim to have psychic powers. Either you are right or you are wrong. But this is proof that you are making things fit. Again known as retrofitting and this is something psychics rely on, the psychology of humans to make things fit.
Perhaps the psychic business is different over in the UK, more like big magician shows that travel the countryside aka John Edwards.
Oh we have small time psychics, out of small shops, or even front rooms. The scam exists on many different levels. But it is always a scam.
We can beg to differ. You've had your experiences, I've had mine. I'm not asking you to believe my story. You know what you know. I know what I know. I am just writing it as it occurred.
I believe you story, I have no reason to doubt you. My issue is that you are not best placed to judge whether or not what happened was real psychic ability or not. The same way as I am not best placed to judge if an Opera singer has hit every note perfectly or not. To be it might sound great, I may have seen many Opera's, I may consider myself a big fan and pretty knowledgeable. My memory might even be excellent when remembering such a show, HOWEVER an expert on Opera singing might say that many notes were off, and the performance was poor, and that me as a layman thought it was great because I am not trained in opera singing.
Should I now argue with that Opera professional that I am right, or accept that the expert might be better placed to judge the ability of an opera singer?
I know the comparison is a bit OTT, but it does stand. I am not trying to diminish your experience, or put your down. I am just trying to point out how from an experts opinion things are never quite as impressive as than that from an amateurs opinion.
Lastly, no I did not write it in word beforehand. Just wrote it direct into the post.
Ok, just keep seeing weird tags around your sentences.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
If I am wrong, I've very happy for people to question my experience.
If I'm wrong, happy for those elements to be brought out. At the same time, I'm not so steadfast in my opinion that I totally discount any argument that is in disagreement with my own viewpoint.
But, sorry, the guy was no magician. You seem to be of the opinion that it is the psychic that is providing the commentary, from their own ideas. It is pretty well documented that this is not the definition of what is a psychic. Do you distinguish between medium and psychic?
It commonly accepted that this means that they have a gift in being able to listen to the message of people who have passed away. As I've stated before, I agree, the vast majority are obviously not in this contact. But if you also discount that the last small minority don't have this gift either, do I assume that you also believe that a soul has no existence once a body dies? I think there are a few documented cases of reincarnation, as are photos of "ghosts" and spirits. So you don't believe in this either? My opinion? I'm open. I will judge on a case by case basis, and will not generalise, will not stereotype.
Just because a room is dark, (as determined through your senses), does this mean that there is no other forms of light or energy in the room? There are many forms of energy that our senses just cannot detect, UV, IR, microwaves, various forms of radiation. What does this mean to you? That there is truly no light in the room, or that your senses aren't attuned to detecting other energy? From your viewpoint, would you discount these other sources of energy simply because you personally cannot experience and verify these effects yourself? This is what I was alluding to before about the understanding of the flat earth philosophy. In some cases, we don't believe things because we can't experience it personally ourselves, and in other cases, we choose not to believe in things.
So, just because you personally can't sense something does this means that you believe that no one can? And the dog that can sense the earthquake before it is registered on any scale? Ahh, just more baloney?
I think I'd hate to be in a position where I was never open to new ideas, always fixed in the one mindset. Who needs advancement? How would Einstein ever have lived in this kind of world? Perhaps we should all go back to the cave and just bang some rocks together, the world would probably be a much safer place!
I think it is all very easy for you to say that somehow my memory was incorrect, or I misjudged something. It is very easy to have a generalist viewpoint, and just say that my story is wrong and I was manipulated. You know nothing about me to say whether I could be manipulated or not. In general you could say that manipulation is what often happens. But then to say that this definitely happened to me, without question. That isn't science. That's just being single-minded.
Someone with an open mind would not have such a closed view of the world. Yes, I am a little disappointed about the "scientific" nature of the critique of my experience. If I was playing the devil's advocate, and we swapped shoes, I think my response would simply be that I am really not in a position to judge whether what you said was true or not. But I would not be strongly pushing that the author was misjudging of what happened, and was duped with magic. I'm sorry, you weren't there, and aren't qualified to make that assessment.
Its very interesting that you say that memory is completely inaccurate. Our family has been in this country for almost 200 years. Do we have a lot of physical evidence of our forebears? No. 100 years ago everything was destroyed by fire, all was lost. But the story of those forebears was passed down word for word down through the generations. Due to this knowledge being passed down, the location of where those forebears were born and the journeys they made were able to be collaborated and narrowed down when more recent family research was undertaken. So, don't tell me that memory cannot be relied upon. Perhaps our family just has good memory genes.
Coming back to your reply.
The 10%, sorry to be so pedantic. 1 comment then. It was all a matter of opinion. How I see myself is different to how someone else sees me.
Smythe versus Smith? Just to illustrate a point. It was a Japanese name, and it would have been difficult to get the exact pronunciation. Smith versus Smythe, to me, the same. Linguistics is something I've always been very good at, so I don't get so hung up over accents.
Being close is not what a psychic claims.
This is just your take, this has never been stated.
They claim to have psychic powers.
Really? Comes down to what I said earlier. Loose flippant terminology isn't scientific.
It seems to me that you are trying to manipulate / reword the situation so that it fits your only perspective of what may have happened.
Ok, just keep seeing weird tags around your sentences.
This sounds scarey, do you have psychic abilities to read my text and to see paranormal sentence tags? (Only joshing!)
================
There are a few things I want to question you about.
You mention that you have
analysed over 2500 readings over 15 years, after having over 300 face to face readings.... I literally have a 100% record on exposing the method
I presume that these were not your readings, but other people's recordings that have been passed to you?
This sounds a very scholarly venture. Have you published your findings in a Scientific Journal for scrutiny?
As with most scientific work, normally there is a level of scientific accuracy. Most scientific work accepts a highest level of accuracy of being 98 - 99%. Scientific work is rarely 100%. Things always crop up, this is the nature of trial and error. So, often results will be "conclusive" at 99%, with a margin of error (generally because there was elements that were inconclusive, or some particular test may not have succeeded or completed for one or other reason).
So, 100% is truly amazing, even much better results that 100% of all the other Scientists in this world. Very, very impressive!
Please don't tell me that it is your memory recollection that the figure is 100%.
I'd really like to read your publications. Have you categorised your research, and provided statistics on your sample size related to the different factors e.g. age, ethnicity, socio and economic demographics, location? 2500 psychics is quite a few, so of these, what was the sample population of psychics? I presume some recordings may have been taken multiple times per psychic?
What was the criteria used to measure the fallibility of readings?
In other words, was a reading 100% discounted as false because of everything that was said? Or if one item out of 100 that was said was deemed to be somehow truthful, did this mean that the whole reading was deemed to be false?
Additionally, if, for instance, a reading had a prediction of Smythe versus Smith as being part of what was said, was this classed as a failure of part of a test? Or was it classed as a whole failure of a test?
For 2500 readings, I would have expected that there would have been at least one tape where people just mumbled, or the recording got switched off at the wrong time, or the recorded fell on the ground and the sound got muffled? No sounds of recipient falling off their chair in boredom? Snoring? No? So, every tape, every sentence, every word was clearly stated, all in clear UK English? Did you get Video as well to demonstrate how every eyebrow raise, every nose twitch were also clearly part of the whole psychological toolset used by the psychic? Of the 2500 readings, how many were just audio, how many were video as well?
It would also have been very useful to have statistics on whether the recipient also felt that the reading was truthful or not as well.
I'm not trying to take the mickey out of you. A 2500 sample is a huge achievement, very impressive. It would be very useful if you could publish this, so that it could be open up to scrutiny on the scientific methods used and to open up opportunities for other people to pursue further research into areas that perhaps you had not covered yourself, or other areas that perhaps need further examination.
Please give us your name and the psychic's name, not to mention a picture or two of you and your wife otherwise you seem like somebody who is trying to sell us a story about how great these psychics are. You have provided nothing but a fanciful story with no proof at all. Please give us as many "facts" that you can provide. I would love think that it is true and you are very happy.
Please give us your name and the psychic's name, not to mention a picture or two of you and your wife otherwise you seem like somebody who is trying to sell us a story about how great these psychics are. You have provided nothing but a fanciful story with no proof at all. Please give us as many "facts" that you can provide. I would love think that it is true and you are very happy.
Thank you and good luck.
He doesn't have to give anything if he doesn't worry. If he was a scammer he could just grab a random photo off the internet, so lets not demand photos and so on. The only thing I asked for was an audio recording as that is all that is needed to easily debunk such a reading.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I dont take offence, dont worry, you can say whatever you like on here
If I am wrong, I've very happy for people to question my experience.
I am not saying you are wrong either, i am suggesting that your interpretation of events might not be completely accurate, and I have tried to give reasons as to why that is so. But i am not just saying "you are wrong, i am right, you must listen to me".
Skepticism is about questioning things, looking at alternative suggestions and ideas.
On one side we have the claim that someone is breaking the laws of physics and every credible scientist in the world is wrong. And the other side we have someone saying that perhaps you are not recalling events completely accurately.
But, sorry, the guy was no magician. You seem to be of the opinion that it is the psychic that is providing the commentary, from their own ideas. It is pretty well documented that this is not the definition of what is a psychic. Do you distinguish between medium and psychic?
No not a magician, but uses the same kind of psychology when tricking someone. I understand the difference between a medium and a psychic, I tend to use the word psychic as a catch all. But as someone who trained as a medium, studied mediumship, has an indepth knowledge of the history of mediumship, spiritualism and so on, yeah I know the difference.
But if you also discount that the last small minority don't have this gift either, do I assume that you also believe that a soul has no existence once a body dies? I think there are a few documented cases of reincarnation, as are photos of "ghosts" and spirits. So you don't believe in this either? My opinion? I'm open. I will judge on a case by case basis, and will not generalise, will not stereotype.
From the moment the first cells are created after conceiving, to the moment the last cell breaks down on our body when we decay, we know every single thing that happens, it has been recorded and is understood by science.
The soul is no more than our mind, our thought processes, we have evolved our brains to such a point that we are able to ask questions about our own existence. There is no evidence that any "soul" exists after the brain stops working.
Also worth noting if you believe in the soul and you are not a vegan, that you should really consider your life choices, as if humans have souls so do animals, and you wouldn't eat/kill a human, yet you will eat/kill animals.
There are ZERO documented cases of reincarnation, just fanciful stories without evidence. And always upon closer examination of such stories there is always a scam going on.
As for photos of ghosts, I have yet to see one that wasn't easily explained. And as for videos, well most if not all our laughable in how bad they are.
What i personally believe or do not believe doesn't matter, what does matter is the facts, the truth. And the fact is there is no credible evidence that a soul exists, that ghosts exist, that anyone can communicate with any afterlife. No evidence at all.
If someone could speak to the dead, why wouldn't Einstein give them a scientific formula to explain his continued existence? Notice how mediums never bring through people from the "other side" with a knowledge base greater than their own. Now if you figure that out then you understand why they are all fakes.
Just because a room is dark, (as determined through your senses), does this mean that there is no other forms of light or energy in the room? There are many forms of energy that our senses just cannot detect, UV, IR, microwaves, various forms of radiation.
Correct, human senses cannot detect such things, but they CAN be measured by science. We know these light spectrums exist because science discovered them.
What does this mean to you? That there is truly no light in the room, or that your senses aren't attuned to detecting other energy? From your viewpoint, would you discount these other sources of energy simply because you personally cannot experience and verify these effects yourself?
No i would not dismiss them because using science I can witness them, I can measure them. Your analogy falls on this one simple point.
So, just because you personally can't sense something does this means that you believe that no one can? And the dog that can sense the earthquake before it is registered on any scale? Ahh, just more baloney?
Again you are equating two completely different things and using one to try and give credence to the other, this is not how science works. Just because using a zero lux camera I can see in full colour a fish at the bottom of the ocean with no light, does not mean that there is some special magical light spectrum that only psychics/mediums can see, oh and they will charge you £50 for the pleasure of telling you what they see, yet refuse any and all scientific tests to prove it.
I think I'd hate to be in a position where I was never open to new ideas, always fixed in the one mindset. Who needs advancement? How would Einstein ever have lived in this kind of world? Perhaps we should all go back to the cave and just bang some rocks together, the world would probably be a much safer place!
Once again you seem to not understand how science works. Science is literally all about being open to new ideas, otherwise science would never have evolved and it would still be as it was hundreds of years ago. To be a believer in mediums, ghosts and so on, is literally to be close minded. Don't confuse the meaning of being "open minded"
I and all of science is very welcoming to new ideas, all we ask is that you prove it, as science always asks, and when someone does prove something, science accepts it ALWAYS and things move on.
I think it is all very easy for you to say that somehow my memory was incorrect, or I misjudged something. It is very easy to have a generalist viewpoint, and just say that my story is wrong and I was manipulated. You know nothing about me to say whether I could be manipulated or not. In general you could say that manipulation is what often happens. But then to say that this definitely happened to me, without question. That isn't science. That's just being single-minded.
It is easy for me to say since it is the single most likely explanation.
Here are the choices. You recall something wrong. or ALL of science needs to be rewritten because the worlds first real psychic gave you a £20 reading.
Do you see the problem here.
It is like me saying that I just saw a flying pig. I have no evidence of it, only my memory of seeing it, 10+ years ago. Either biology of the pig is completely wrong and everything we know about pigs, and the science of flight is wrong. Or I am wrong. What is more likely?
That is always the question to ask.
Someone with an open mind would not have such a closed view of the world. Yes, I am a little disappointed about the "scientific" nature of the critique of my experience. If I was playing the devil's advocate, and we swapped shoes, I think my response would simply be that I am really not in a position to judge whether what you said was true or not. But I would not be strongly pushing that the author was misjudging of what happened, and was duped with magic. I'm sorry, you weren't there, and aren't qualified to make that assessment.
And sadly this is what we often see when a believer has had an experience questioned, they get very defensive. I was NOT there i agree, I asked for some kind of evidence, an audio recording to back up what you claim. Yet this does not exist, so we are left asking the same question again, What is more likely.
We understand the fallibility of human memory, there are hundreds of books written about it. But I am just expected to accept that ALL of science is wrong because of something you are remembering from 10+ years ago?
Come on mate, that is just not fair.
Its very interesting that you say that memory is completely inaccurate. Our family has been in this country for almost 200 years. Do we have a lot of physical evidence of our forebears? No. 100 years ago everything was destroyed by fire, all was lost. But the story of those forebears was passed down word for word down through the generations. Due to this knowledge being passed down, the location of where those forebears were born and the journeys they made were able to be collaborated and narrowed down when more recent family research was undertaken. So, don't tell me that memory cannot be relied upon. Perhaps our family just has good memory genes.
First defensive, and now misrepresentation, again I see this so often. I never said that memory is completely inaccurate, So why are you now claiming I did. This is getting silly now.
Smythe versus Smith? Just to illustrate a point. It was a Japanese name, and it would have been difficult to get the exact pronunciation. Smith versus Smythe, to me, the same. Linguistics is something I've always been very good at, so I don't get so hung up over accents.
Why not say the actual name they gave compared to the real name? I speak 4 languages, I am pretty good with languages myself.
You mention that you have
analysed over 2500 readings over 15 years, after having over 300 face to face readings.... I literally have a 100% record on exposing the method
I presume that these were not your readings, but other people's recordings that have been passed to you?
300 face to face readings I have personally had with psychics/mediums, I have witnessed every type of mediumship imaginable. I have examined 2500+ readings given to others that have been shown to me to explain.
This sounds a very scholarly venture. Have you published your findings in a Scientific Journal for scrutiny?
I publish on my site. I make no money from what I do, I work to help people, and most I cannot publish, as people wont let me, or dont want me to out of fear or reprisals, embarrassment and so on. It is also worth noting that it is actually pointless publishing so many readings, realistically you only need to publish a few since the methods are very similar.
Would you read hundreds of near identical readings? How many times do you want to hear "I am getting an older feather figure, I am getting a jack name but liked to be called John" or "Would a young man who had an accident on his bike mean anything to you"
The psychic script is actually quite limited. Visit badpsychics.com and read, there is a lot there.
So, 100% is truly amazing, even much better results that 100% of all the other Scientists in this world. Very, very impressive!
I am not a scientist. The 100% record is due to the fact I have never been stumped. I have never failed. I am not testing a specific thing, but instead something that is no more than a magic trick, if you know how the magic trick is performed, it is very unlikely you will ever be fooled.
Please don't tell me that it is your memory recollection that the figure is 100%.
So we have had defensive, misrepresentation, and now you attack the person who questioned you. That is fine I don't mind.
My memory recollection is not 100% no. However if I had found the worlds first medium I am sure I would have recorded it somewhere, as you know I could make millions from having found such a person.
Maybe the aliens wiped my memory! (Literally a more statistically probably likelyhood than there being a real psychic/medium)
I'd really like to read your publications. Have you categorised your research, and provided statistics on your sample size related to the different factors e.g. age, ethnicity, socio and economic demographics, location? 2500 psychics is quite a few, so of these, what was the sample population of psychics? I presume some recordings may have been taken multiple times per psychic?
Nope, because I am not a scientist and I do not get paid to do what I do.
What was the criteria used to measure the fallibility of readings?
Simple, could the psychic do what they claimed, yes or no.
Look i understand what you are trying to do, and it is a decent approach to take. But it is a fruitless one. I have not made any magical claim, I have not said a single thing that would mean the rewriting of science. No one cares whether I am right or wrong on any claim I make, because no claim I make is magical.
When I make a magical claim, then you can grill me from here to the end of time.
Although I did just see a pig fly past my window, humming the theme tune to The A Team! Wow! I of course have no proof, so you will have to trust my excellent memory, and also trust the fact that I am a complete stranger, writing text on the internet, but still i have no reason to lie. And more than that you cant prove that a pig did NOT fly past my window, therefore it must be true.
It is a pity that you do not publish your results, so that they can be scrutinized by the scientific community.
You claim 100% knowledge of this phenomena, but have no journal papers to support your understanding, to put this knowledge through critical rigor. You believe that you have never failed in your assessments of these situation, yet have never had a peer review to validate that the findings you believe are accurate findings, and the techniques that you use to assess these situations stand up to professional scrutiny.
I do not profess to be an expert on the topic of paranormal, but I do profess to have a skeptical mind, and am well versed in the validation of scientific studies through peer review, and the importance of this step in establishing credibility of an authoritative standard.
In regard to metaphysics and general discovery, I am open to ideas, and do not believe that the limit of what humanity can discover is limited to what it already knows about.
Apparently over 75% of the world's population have religious belief, which generally has some connotation with an afterlife, and apparently in your view all these people are wrong too, that there is no such proof of a soul. I can see why this forum would give rise to a lot of heated debate on this topic.
To be recognised as an authoritative critic on this topic, you need peer accreditation. Other paranormal researchers do this, why not?
If you don't believe in Ghosts, grab your camera and come over here. A bloke regularly goes to a set location and just snaps away all night. High end camera stuff. Doesn't take much effort if you know where to look, this guy regularly gets a good haul of pics.
What You write does not make (enough) sense. Jon NEVER claims oder ever claimed 100% knowledge of this(which exactly?) phenomena ! And You just can't ask from anyone to lose precious lifetime on hunting for ghosts...the burden of proof is on the CLAIMANT not the skeptic. You have to provide the proof of real ghosts on photos, it's not Jon having to proof that they don't exist...do You understand that ?
What You write does not make (enough) sense. Jon NEVER claims oder ever claimed 100% knowledge of this(which exactly?) phenomena ! And You just can't ask from anyone to lose precious lifetime on hunting for ghosts...the burden of proof is on the CLAIMANT not the skeptic. You have to provide the proof of real ghosts on photos, it's not Jon having to proof that they don't exist...do You understand that ?
The 100% claim is something i say, it is with regards to me never failing to expose a medium when analysing their readings and so on. I have never been stumped etc, and i have a 100% record when taking on mediums, for example I have never called a medium a fake and then they have proved me wrong. This is where the 100% claim comes from.
No different to say a wine expert saying that he has a 100% record in saying whether a drink is wine or beer when tasting it. Could he be fooled by a clever beer made to taste like wine? Perhaps, but it is incredibly unlikely.
Also with the incredibly backwards libel laws in the UK, I have never been sued, and any time I have been threatened with legal action I have stood up to them and they have backed down. So this is where the 100% claim comes from.
And this is why i can be so confident when I say things regarding readings, especially ones that people have no recording of.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
It is a pity that you do not publish your results, so that they can be scrutinized by the scientific community.
But the scientific community already agree with me. There is nothing for them to scrutinize. I am not the one making a magic claim. It is like someone saying that they can count to ten, and then asking for scientists to scrutinise their claim. The scientists dont care, as the claim of being able to count to ten is already well known and proven.
So yes you are a bit confused here.
You claim 100% knowledge of this phenomena
What are you on about? I claim no 100% knowledge of some phenomena? There is NO Phenomena. That is the point.
I do not profess to be an expert on the topic of paranormal, but I do profess to have a skeptical mind, and am well versed in the validation of scientific studies through peer review, and the importance of this step in establishing credibility of an authoritative standard.
You are arguing from a really bad position, and I dont want to make fun of you. SO I am doing my best to be nice. So I will repeat, There is NO evidence of psychic phenomena. There exists no CREDIBLE peer reviewed scientific studies to prove psychic phenomena, in fact in 100% of such tests the psychic fails when the chance to cheat is removed, no exceptions, no anomolies.
This is all that matters. Again in CREDIBLE (very important word) tests and peer review, ALL psychics fail.
Apparently over 75% of the world's population have religious belief, which generally has some connotation with an afterlife, and apparently in your view all these people are wrong too, that there is no such proof of a soul. I can see why this forum would give rise to a lot of heated debate on this topic.
Yes all of those people are wrong. The belief in religious is an evolutionary one, a psychological one, it is well understood why this happens.
When you cant understand something you give it magical meaning, that is how religion is born, whether it is Amazonian tribesman worshipping trees, or ancient people believing the moon and the sun were gods who chased each other, and so on.
And much like psychic trickery, when people dont understand how it is done, they give it magical meaning, as that is the only way they can understand it. Show a man 200 years ago a modern smartphone, and they will treat you like a god.
If you don't believe in Ghosts, grab your camera and come over here. A bloke regularly goes to a set location and just snaps away all night. High end camera stuff. Doesn't take much effort if you know where to look, this guy regularly gets a good haul of pics.
I am actually something of a photographic buff (amateur level), this has helped me explain the nature of many so called ghosts on photos. And I bet there is not a single photo your bloke has taken that I cant explain.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
