Derren Brown Investigates Ep2 Discussion Thread

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

Ep 2: Derren Brown Investigates: The Man with X-Ray Eyes
TX: 17th May at 10pm


In this brand new series, Derren Brown hits the road to find out if some of the more extraordinary claims from around the world are actually true.

This hour-long show sees Derren Brown travel to Holland with Judy Dunk, a British lady who has been blind since 1995. Both Derren and Judy are intrigued by the claims made by Vyacheslav Bronnikov, founder of the Bronnikov method, a psychic programme that has its eyes set on world domination. Critics say it is fakery but practioners say it is an extraordinary psychic method which enables you to see without using your eyes.

Vyacheslav Bronnikov believes that he can create a new super man and everyone can benefit from this system. They believe they can teach the blind to see, even those without eyes.

Few claims come as large as this one so Derren goes on a journey to investigate the truth behind the method…


Executive Producers
Anthony Owen
Derren Brown

Producer/Director
Krishna Govender

[redbaron]

just going to watch it now.

[bujin]

No real surprises in that one. Not that I expected there to be any!

[traceyg]

I was horrified watching this last night, I couldn't believe people were parting with 700 euros a time for this course. As soon as I started watching it it was already reeking of scam to me, i really don't know how Derren composed himself at the end, what is it with these people with "big claims" when confronted they always go down the route of "i don't have to prove anything to you" and providing no evidence whatsoever.

The course itself was just a load of mumbo jumbo mixed in with meditation and psycho babble. I thought the tv crew may of investigated this man more indepth he must have some history there in his own country, especially his son spouting medical conditions and trying to diagnose that lady and obviously getting it completely wrong.

I just hope to god they don't try and promote this crap in other countries, they both need locking up.

[bujin]

May 18, 2010 9:17:45 GMT traceyg said:

what is it with these people with "big claims" when confronted they always go down the route of "i don't have to prove anything to you" and providing no evidence whatsoever.

As far as evidence goes, you cannot get any better evidence that someone or something is fake than when you get that particular response.

As for promoting this crap in other countries, the show did mention at the end that it's on its way to Britain. I'd say that we're not stupid enough to fall for it, but it'll probably have Prince Charles bending over backwards to get it paid for on the NHS...

[Ma'amJo]

I was disgusted by the whole thing.

I had tears in my eyes when he accused that teenage boy who had Cerebral Palsy of being lazy. How anyone can let that come out of their mouths is beyond me, and if he'd been my child and I heard that, Mr Bronnikov would have been learning to see through black eyes. Watching that young man try and learn these so-called miraculous methods in order to cure himself and make himself walk properly just made me feel really upset.

Once I'd seen that I was too wound up to watch the rest.

[esme1964]

I noticed that, in the same way that psychics turn any fails into the fault of the sitter, there was an indication that this only works if you practice it daily in the exact correct way. So, if you don't get you're results, it was not a failure of the method, was it?

[Amaris]

May 18, 2010 17:01:14 GMT esme1964 said:

I noticed that, in the same way that psychics turn any fails into the fault of the sitter, there was an indication that this only works if you practice it daily in the exact correct way. So, if you don't get you're results, it was not a failure of the method, was it?

I noticed that too esme. Such an obvious case of fraud, obtaining money by deceit.
Charles Bonnet Syndrome as was mentioned in the programme has been mentioned here before but I can't find it on search, probably too long ago.
This info is from the The Royal National Institute for the Blind.

About Charles Bonnet syndrome

Charles Bonnet syndrome (or CBS for short) is a term used to describe the situation when people with sight problems start to see things which they know aren't real. Sometimes called 'visual hallucinations', the things people see can take all kinds of forms from simple patterns of straight lines to detailed pictures of people or buildings.

A Swiss philosopher named Charles Bonnet first described this condition in 1760 when he noticed that his grandfather, who was almost blind, saw patterns, figures, birds and buildings which were not there. Although the condition was described almost 250 years ago, it is still largely unknown by ordinary doctors and nurses. This is partly because of a lack of knowledge about the syndrome and partly because people experiencing it don't talk about their problems from fear of being thought of as mentally ill.

Charles Bonnet syndrome affects people with serious sight loss and usually only people who have lost their sight later in life but can affect people of any age, usually appearing after a period of worsening sight. The visual hallucinations often stop within a year to eighteen months.
Causes of Charles Bonnet syndrome

At the moment little is known about how the brain stores the information it gets from the eyes and how we use this information to help us create the pictures we see. There is some research which shows that, when we see, the information from the eyes actually stops the brain from creating its own pictures. When people lose their sight, their brains are not receiving as many pictures as they used to, and sometimes, new fantasy pictures or old pictures stored in our brains are released and experienced as though they were seen. These experiences seem to happen when there is not much going on, for example when people are sitting alone, somewhere quiet which is familiar to them or when they are in lying in bed at night.
Charles Bonnet syndrome and mental health

Seeing things which aren't there can sometimes be frightening. Some people may worry that seeing things is a sign of mental health problems or of conditions such as Alzheimer's. They may be worried about this so much that they don't tell their GPs, families or friends what is happening. It is important to realise that CBS is caused by failing eyesight and not any other health problems.

There are other medical problems which can cause people to see things: Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's, strokes, serious mental illness and other brain conditions which affect that part of the brain concerned with seeing.

Having CBS does not mean that you are more likely to develop any of these other conditions.Usually people with CBS are aware that their hallucinations, although vivid, are not real. CBS hallucinations only affect sight and do not involve hearing things or any other sensations. People with CBS do not develop complicated non-medical explanations about the cause of their hallucinations (sometimes called 'delusions'). If you think you are having Charles Bonnet syndrome hallucinations, tell your GP about them. You may find it useful to take a copy of this webpage along with you to show to your doctor.
Common hallucinations

There seem to be two different kinds of things people see. Both of them can be black and white or in colour, involve movement or stay still, and they can seem real - such as cows in a field, or unreal - such as pictures of dragons.

Firstly, there are the hallucinations of patterns and lines, which can become quite complicated like brickwork, netting, mosaic or tiles.

Secondly, there are more complicated pictures of people or places. Sometimes whole scenes will appear, such as landscapes or groups of people, which are sometimes life-size, and at other times are reduced or enlarged in size. These pictures appear 'out of the blue' and can carry on for a few minutes or sometimes several hours.

Many people begin to recognise similar things appearing in their visions such as distorted faces or the same tiny people in particular costumes.

Generally the pictures are pleasant although the effects can be scary.
Effects of the hallucinations

Sometimes the complicated pictures can make it difficult to get around. For example, streets and rooms may have their shape changed or brickwork and fencing appear directly in front of you making it difficult for you to judge exactly where you are and whether you can walk straight ahead. One gentleman describes how, approaching the top of the stairs, he had a vision of being on top of a mountain, and had considerable problems getting down the stairs. Good knowledge of your surroundings can help overcome this particular problem.

The complicated pictures can sometimes be a little scary. Although the visions themselves may not be of anything frightening, it is disturbing to start seeing strangers in your home or garden. People often overcome this by getting to know the figures in their visions. Another man describes how, when he wakes up in the morning, he says to the figures he is seeing: "Right, what have you got in store for me today?" This allows him to have some control over the way he feels about his seeing things.
Prognosis

For most people, just knowing that it is poor vision and not other health problems that cause CBS is the best treatment, helping people to understand and come to terms with their hallucinations. Generally these experiences will disappear after about a year or eighteen months but, of course, this will not happen for everyone with this problem. For those with serious disturbing hallucinations, a number of medications are available. Unfortunately, however, none are effective for everyone.

One way of dealing with visions, when they occur, is to try to change things to see if this will help them disappear. For example, if they happen in the dark, try switching a light on or if they happen in the light, try switching the light off. If you are sitting down when they happen, try standing up. Some people find that moving their eyes helps (eg from left to right or up and down).

Sometimes talking over feelings with a counsellor, psychologist or psychiatrist can help provide people with ways of coping with the visions. If you are having problems with yours, talking to your GP may be a good way to find some help. Although CBS is not connected to mental health problems, the professionals in this field are the expert at helping people deal with hallucinations. If you are very distressed by your hallucinations, then your GP may want to refer you to the local mental health team.

www.rnib.org.uk/eyehealth/eyeconditions/conditionsac/Pages/charles_bonnet.aspx

[esme1964]

About 20 years ago I used to work with elderly people , and one of them was a gentleman who was blind - he used to hallucinate that he was in a wood, and used to describe it to me in great detail, he could see this scene as though it was real. It was awful for him as he knew it wasn't real, but he wanted it to be

[Ma'amJo]

That's quite sad, esme, and makes what this cretin's doing even worse in taking advantage of people who'd give anything to be able to see. He must have a rock where his heart should be.

[Ghostman]

I just watched it and like missjo felt myself welling up as the Bronnikov was rude to the young lad.

Derren did a terrific job in the interview at the end - he elegantly cut straight through Bronnikov grand nonsense that simply didn't mean anything - I would have needed time to absorb what was being said to me. But actually, Bronnikov showed himself to be a very dim fraudster by claiming an ability that is so easily testable (i.e. seeing through the closed box). At one point Bronnikov even started getting jingoistic about Russia having his superior method over the sceptical UK - and I must admit I felt like starting WW3 against him...