Look forward to it. If he still needs advice and support there are a number of on-line forums which deal with cults and give cult-survivors a place to compare stories and share experiences.
Post by lilacearthwitch on Aug 30, 2006 21:02:02 GMT
I am not too up on what JW's fully believe or do not believe in but one thing is for sure, they do not like calling at my home anymore. I think the black pentagram in the window above the door tells them something about the person who lives there. I don't believe any religion should be touted about and I don't think they can use the excuse of spreading the word either because each person should find their own way in life and have the freedom to choose in one's own time and at one's own will. I don't like doorstep religious pedallars, they call at the most inconvenient of times and don't even consider if the person on the other side of the door wants to talk or hear about religion or not. Each to their own and all that but I chose my way and they have chose theirs. Live and let live but don't go trying to thrust what you believe in on to others. I don't and I certainly don't want them to either. JW's seem to think they can go mithering folk and that's what annoys me the most about them
My Mum's Uncle was a one. I remember dreading him coming cause all he did was preach. My Nan (his Sister) would have almighty rows with him. And more often than not tell him to leave. What gets me is the way they come knocking at your door trying to shove their beliefs down your thoat. I mean if I want to learn more i would go to the local Kingdom Hall I don't expect to be harrassed in my own home. Catholics/ Christians etc. don't do that so why do they?
My ex became a 'born again christain'. You say that you dont expect to be harassed in your own home... My ex would be questioning me about my beliefs and as to whether or not I'd read the bible. No you don't expect it, but any religion - especially when someone you've lived with for a long time (20 years in my case) - can cause such sadness and fear, especially when someone becomes obsessive about it.
If all else fails,just follow the advice of that wise oracle , Jasper Carrot, "invite them in, it confuses them so much they dont know what to do " . Alternatively use my tip, tell them you are a fully paid up member of Al Qeada and believe all non believers should die and shout "allah akbar" (i think thats how you spell it) really loudly and repeatedly, it scares the living doodahs out of them and they leg it. Funnily enough the group of them that live a few doors away from me ,cross the road every time they see me and never knock at my door any more. My mates actually went to the kindom hall with pamphlets on Islam a few years ago and tried handing them out but the JW's called the police ,when the coppers had stopped laughing they dropped my mates off at the pub and said dont do it again,not even a caution.
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My ex became a 'born again christain'. You say that you dont expect to be harassed in your own home... My ex would be questioning me about my beliefs and as to whether or not I'd read the bible.
Is that what finished the marriage? I'm really sorry I can imagine how awful it must have been. Good on you for not getting sucked in as well.
My ex became a 'born again christain'. You say that you dont expect to be harassed in your own home... My ex would be questioning me about my beliefs and as to whether or not I'd read the bible.
Is that what finished the marriage? I'm really sorry I can imagine how awful it must have been. Good on you for not getting sucked in as well.
There were lot of other things besides, but yes, it did finish the marriage. I felt the need to protect the children too - still do.
My Nan was a JW, and I spent a lot of time when I was young going to conventions with her (good way to get some time off school). Aside from her strange religion, she was a wonderful sweet woman, who saw the good in everyone. Anyhoo I've a few observations/comments to add, from my own experiences with her.
She did, indeed join at a time of crisis for her...her husband had died (it was before I was born), and she felt the need of some kind of spiritual support. She was a catholic, and didn't find it there...she tried spiritualism, with my mother being taken to sing at their meetings ...she didn't find it there either....then she tried the JWs...and she found what she was looking for.
JW is not the only religion that can endanger life...islamic fundamentalism..some other Christian one where they can't have traditional medical treatment of any kind...and those scientologists...even catholicism with its anti abortion stance (regardless of health etc) and its stance on contraception (think about the transmission of STIs) to name a few.
In terms of the blood thing...that's their interpretation of what the bible says. Difference christian religions have different interpretations of the same book. Some take the words more literally and some go for the symbolism angle.
The same really goes for the going to churches thing...It's all about obeying the commandment not to worship false idols....They see the statues, icons, and pomp that goes with many religions as detracting from what/who they should be worshipping...by not going into other churches they are merely remaining true to their beliefs. My mum was dead pissed off with my nan, cos she actually came in to the back of the church when I got married, but didn't go to my mums wedding...mind you she tried to convert the vicar at the reception!!
Sorry to have to contradict you Lowrider...but they DO believe that Jesus was crucified...well nailed up and left to die...just not on a cross...again it depends on the translation/interpretation of ancient writings...it was very common in the time that JC was supposedly alive for people to be nailed up to stakes, with no crossbar bit, and as he was 'done' with common criminals he wouldn't have been any different..it's a bit pedantic in my opinion, but nonetheless, worship /wearing of the cross would be seen as worhipping a VERY false idol
JC wasn't born on Christmas day...that day was hijacked by the christian church from some pagan type festival I think .
Some do have a tendency to preach...but not all....unfortunately for me my nan was one of those that did...she used to get really upset that I wasn't going to be in the new Garden of Eden after Armageddon...it was because she loved me so much. I just used to gently tell her it was not my belief and that she wasn't going to change that.
Sorry Clairevoyant1, they do indeed preach door to door...but then there ARE others that do the same...Mormons/JC of the latter day saints for one. There are also many who preach at the top of their most irritating voices in town centres and on street corners everywhere...and it's a damn site harder to get away from those pain in the arses that it is to close the door on a JW or a Mormon, in my opinion. Again, JWs are doing what they interpret as the teachings of the bible, attempting to spread their version of the word in any way they can.
Guidedspirithunter....unless things have changed drastically over the last few years, this is not areligion that you have to fight to get out of. People aren't prevented from leaving in the same way that they are from some of the cults. Yes it may be difficult for those who do leave, in much the same way as it is for many who have been catholic to leave their church, but they are not, as far as I remember forced to stay at all...they are looked upon as lost sheep.
Skeptomatic...don't ALL churches (I know-sweeping genralisation) use fear and vulnerability to draw and keep their members, and,more to the point, to control them?? Aren't they all cults?? Just that some are WAAAAYYY bigger than others.
Okies...my nan got loads of support from her congregation...her funeral was a wonderful joyous celebration of her life...it floated her boat, but not mine.
My point is (yawn...finally)....yes they are different, but they are also the same....they're strict pacifists, but without the crustiness of some anti war types .... umm... feck...lost it! Too much flamin' rambling.
Anyhoo...I don't intend this post in support of JWs in any way...I don't really do religion....I just know a bit about it from years of being around my nan, who died 20 odd years ago...I just wanted to make some stuff a bit clearer, and add my slant on.....if I had to choose, I'd rather have a JW than a hypocritical catholic any day (no offence intended).
If another woman steals your man, the best revenge is to let her keep him! (and get a MUCH younger model like I did )
Sorry to have to contradict you Lowrider...but they DO believe that Jesus was crucified...well nailed up and left to die...just not on a cross...again it depends on the translation/interpretation of ancient writings...it was very common in the time that JC was supposedly alive for people to be nailed up to stakes, with no crossbar bit, and as he was 'done' with common criminals he wouldn't have been any different..it's a bit pedantic in my opinion, but nonetheless, worship /wearing of the cross would be seen as worhipping a VERY false idol
I was simply telling what i have been told during conversations with my brother and sister in law.. They see it different and are elders so took there word for it,but not a big thing so whatever.
carlinkaz said:
Again, JWs are doing what they interpret as the teachings of the bible, attempting to spread their version of the word in any way they can.
In fact they are obliged to work the doors and are rostered to do a certain amount of hours per week. That is a lifetime commitment,no matter how you grow within the church.
A very informative post Carlinkaz. Your grandmother sounded as though she was a very happy lady in her latter years and if this was brought about by her association with the Jehova's Witnesses well they are to be applauded. I know everyone moans if they open their doors and they are standing on the doorstep but I'm afraid I can't be rude and close the door on them and I must admit all they ever do is ask me to read their pamphlets and are always quite gracious, whereas years ago they used to 'preach' to you.
I'd rather have a JW than a hypocritical catholic any day (no offence intended).
I realise you don't mean to offend but this 'hypocritical catholic' would like to ask why you have picked on catholics and not other denominations?
Lowrider - I know they are obliged to go door to door. What I mean is that is part of what they do as part of their faith....errr...brain fried....Friday afternoon syndrome!
Sorry Cheyanne71, if I have offended in any way. Again I'm just speaking from experience/association. The reason I specifically mentioned catholics is down to the whole confession thing.
I realise this won't apply to all catholics, but I know more than 1 who regularly go to confession, only to go and do exactly the same thing again. But it's OK because they'll get forgiven again next time they go to confession and do a pennance. So, IMO, that's hypocritical, as going to confession/doing pennance is supposed to imply that they are truly sorry for what they have done...and this is sometimes not the case.
When saying I'd rather have one than the other...I meant exactly on an individual level. Put a single JW in front of me who practices what they preach, and a single catholic who IS being hypocritical about thier religion, and I take the honest one any day.
That was a bit of a ramble, but I hope you understand what I mean
If another woman steals your man, the best revenge is to let her keep him! (and get a MUCH younger model like I did )
I read in a paper over here that a JW family disowned one of their children because they didn't want to be a JW anymore! Such a shame
Can't undestand it myself!
My grandparents were JW, but didnt disown us, however they did try to convert us at every opportunity
did use to upset us at christmas and birthdays when everyone else would say what they had been given by their grandparents and i never got anything from mine
however my gran would spout bits from the Bible, until my dad, who grew up in a RC convent school would tell her she was misquoting and what the actual quote from Bible was (the JW Bible is slightly different to the standard RC / COE version)
I believe in ghosts but I dont believe in Most Haunted
Unfortunately it all boils down to another interpretation of the Bible (strange how if this is the Word of God, why is it not straight forward? Why is it open to 'interpretation'?) It states in Acts 15:28,29 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!” and in Genesis 9:4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat
How on earth this has anything to do with blood transfusions is beyond me. The author of those little gems would have had no knowledge of what a blood transfusion was as the first one was not performed until 1492! Having a belief in a God is a personal thing, what I hate about JW's is they way they peddle their beliefs door to door. Not with honesty,I mean how many times have you opened the door to them and the first words from their mouths have been "Hello, I'm a Jehovah's Witness"? No, its always "what are your views on the World today?" or "How do you feel about the crime in the area". Never closed questions, always open, the 'salesman's pitch'. They disturb me, deeply. Any religious sect that actively encourages its members to break contact with 'non believers' is deeply worrying.
Post by fromtheotherside on Nov 9, 2006 14:13:26 GMT
And yet they accept Organ donation....as well of course as they do a percentage of their members wages etc etc etc
Oh I love JW's..I havent a problem with the poeple themsleves,especiallythe ones that can actually debate with me without quoting word for word from the bible....how bloody infuriating that is. I wanna scream at them" USE YOUR OWN WORDS" arrrggghh..but I am yet to run into one yet
my sister was brainwashed by them. They are nutters. I think its wrong to knock on doors for members. At least with ours and other religions people seek guidance by going to a church. Didnt this little band of merry men start with a geezer in a one barn town years ago? Whatever, its about bible interperation. But boy have they grown, nice spngly shiny new churches.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 10, 2006 16:55:24 GMT
my sister was brainwashed by them.
What happened to free will? Pot calling the kettle black here mate
They are nutters.
Said the main who hears voices
I think its wrong to knock on doors for members.
No, its much better to lie barefaced to them on TV and in spiritualist centres, much better to con them into believing you are talking to their dead mother.
At least with ours and other religions people seek guidance by going to a church.
Nope, people go to YOUR church to speak to their dead relatives.
Didnt this little band of merry men start with a geezer in a one barn town years ago? Whatever, its about bible interperation. But boy have they grown, nice spngly shiny new churches
And whats wrong with that exactly? Ok so they have some beliefs i dont agree with. All that no smoking and no drinking stuff, or that no sex before marriage crap. They really are bad people!! lol Bet they live longer than the rest of us!! Unless of course they need a blood transfusion!
Ireally think you are out of order mate for calling them nutters and saying they brain wash people. I could and do say the exact same thing about mediums, the big difference is that mediums charge you a lot or money to tell you lies
Seriously havea think about what you claim and what you stand for, then ask yourself, are the JW's really that bad compared to your lot?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I agree with Zeus. Don't call them nutters. I certainly don't go along with their beliefs but what they are doing is simply what spiritualists do - follow a particular faith. What's great about humankind is that it can encompass so may different faiths and religions (yes I know most wars are caused by relegious intolerence) - I am talking about the fact that we all have the right (theoligically speaking) to believe in whatever we want. JWs are no more different that Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims Spiritualists etc. I have worked with two JWs in the past and did not know they were until I was told by another person. They are two of the nicest people I have worked with - they did not do the 'preaching' thing at all. Do they do the Saturday morning knocking on doors thing? - I've no idea.
what an eye opener. so you will permit freewill when used by others Jon? Am i right here. you use and use terms phrases and words when it suits. Freewill is so bad when people want to see a medium, but anything else is ok? bollox. Nuuters, mediums are called fraud. sahll i ask a JW to prove he isnt a nutter. And you know i hear voices. why do you ask a question, and not pay attention to the answer. so basically, what i see, is as long as your not a medium, the Jon is ok with you. Or am i now misreading as you do. Mediums offer proof to the people that see them, what do JW,s do. bugger all. and lies are an inteperation Jon, just like opinions, if they apply god, if not, dont go again.
I can imagine how awful it must have been. Good on you for not getting sucked in as well.
...she didn't find it there either....then she tried the JWs...and she found what she was looking for.
I wanna scream at them" USE YOUR OWN WORDS" arrrggghh..but I am yet to run into one yet 
