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Post by quackersgpi on Aug 30, 2006 22:14:09 GMT
This has always been a confusing subject for me and I would be interested in hearing other peoples views. The christian belief is that God created man (then realised SHE'd made a mistake and created woman !!  ) anyway..most other religions follow the same or a similar belief. And yet, evolution has been proven. The evolutionary stages of man has been scientifically explained and accepted. Therefore, why do people still belive in God creating the world and man in 6 days ? Where do the dinasaurs fit in to this theory ? Whenever I've asked this question of people with strong religious beliefs they have always avoided the subject and quickly changed the conversation. |
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Aug 30, 2006 22:57:02 GMT
Well the believers do not believe in evolution. Simple as that.
They believe that the dinosaurs died out thousands of years ago as opposed to millions.
Simple as that
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Post by mamagpi on Aug 30, 2006 22:58:01 GMT
Its confusing alright...you get all these books and history programs going on about how we have evolved, then parents and churches telling you god created man.....because if he did then who created everything before BC ?
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Post by quackersgpi on Aug 30, 2006 23:00:37 GMT
I agree Jon..another case where blind belief leads to total disregard of scientific fact. And yet, there are some who believe in God and all of that yet still agree to evolution when you talk to them as if in some way it is possible to believe in the two.
I also agree with you mama, you are taught in schools about history and evolution but, at the same time you are taught R.E
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Post by Rocktron on Aug 31, 2006 5:26:55 GMT
Religion is in ANY case something MEN created and has NO foundation at all. It's just something left over from the time we started to question about things... we just upgrade it every time we evolve and adjust it to our comfort.
So anyone is free to believe whatever he / she wants to believe.
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Post by lodx on Aug 31, 2006 12:12:04 GMT
Whoa there Jon!
I think firstly you have to define who "The Believers" are,and secondly how can you encompass all religions in one sweeping statement?
Also you can be a Theistic Evolutionist:
Theistic Evolution is the idea that God used evolution to create the world. Life supposedly originated from non-living chemicals, just as the Atheistic Evolutionist says it did, and all modern forms of life are thought to have then developed from the first one-celled organism by mutation and natural selection. The difference is that God supposedly created the initial materials and set up the natural laws, then guided the whole process.
Everything is possible until proved otherwise
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Post by lodx on Aug 31, 2006 12:28:04 GMT
Just to be a pain in the a***  This statement is wrong as the discovery of the Coealocanth has proved.(First discovered in 1938) Most of the dinosaurs died out,not all. This little fishy slipped through the net. Great with chips and mushy peas.(with the obligatory pickled onion on the side of course).
Everything is possible until proved otherwise
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Post by quackersgpi on Aug 31, 2006 12:51:50 GMT
I agree, we cannot generalise here and suggest that ALL religions hold the belief in God creating man etc etc. In my initial post I did put the Christian religion and most others. Rocktron I agree, religion is something man invented and it has no historical proof, and yet it is what makes or breaks communities, starts wars and controls people. So, when there are so many facts to disprove SOME religious teachings, how come people still believe it all. lodx..I have no religious beliefs but I find the Theistic Evolution very interesting. At least this is a religious belief that gives at least one theory that mixes belief in God with scientific proven fact and doesn't dismiss science completely. I'd like to add that I'll never look at fish and chips in the same way again |
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Post by lodx on Aug 31, 2006 14:09:34 GMT
Religion can be an excuse to start wars etc. But I am pretty sure most of the "Prophets" did not want it to be this way.The good ol' human race decided to pervert it,as they do with so many things  Many Politicians start out with good intentions but then let the power trip turn them into nothing more than idiotic,self publicising loons.Perhaps we should ban Politics along with Religion?  . But we mustn't forget those of a religious bent who help mankind,there are many of these,and whatever I think of their beliefs.If they practice what they preach (in a positive way) then more power to their elbow. As for the facts,well obviously you cannot proove or disproove the existence of a deity.Except in your own mind. Faith is a hard thing to quash. But I would rather have a world where Faith exists,as it can help people to cope with loss,pain,loneliness etc etc.And can promote positive moral attitudes. Some would say there are Psychologists,Counsellors,teachers etc that can help as well or do the same job as Faith.This is true. So many would say,we do not need Faith as it's job could be taken by the learned professsionals. But unfortunatley,for every war started by Religion there is a war started by Politicians. Religion is made up of the good and bad as is any section of society. As for controlling people,well lets not forget.The Media,The Government,(even Big Brother ),The far right and left wing etc. Let those who want a God have him/it. But castigate them only when their God drives them to hurt others. As for Science and Facts,well I think we must all realise that Science does not have all the answers and Science does have as negative a side as Faith/Religion. Just ask the Jews who were experimented on in the Concentration Camps. Science has helped mankind wipe each other out with more and more terrible weapons,Science can be cuthroat,and for every Scientist pushing mankind forward there will be a Scientist hell bent on pushing us back to the dark ages. Let people believe in anything they wish to,to curb this ingrained sense of wonder,would,IMHO turn man into a race of Mr Spocks. I would prefer we were more like Kirk. Sorry If I went on a bit.  |
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Post by Amaris on Sept 2, 2006 1:42:40 GMT
[quote author=lodx board=religion thread=1156976049
I was actually pondering this the other day. I personally believe in a creator, but I have no belief at all in the bible or any other written "holy" book. But was thinking, if there never existed some kind of faith in a creator as such, would there be morals, if no-one believed in a something, from the beginning of mans existence, would it be inherent in us?
Even early man had beliefs in a god or gods, so without that, would we all, whatever we believe now, be different?
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Post by lodx on Sept 2, 2006 11:46:56 GMT
This is interesting,I myself believe in a creator or creators.
Although my mind is not made up on who or what the creator/s may be.
If mankind had not had it's god/s then I believe that mankind would need something else to believe in.Something else to help explain why we are here.
If you have an ingrained need to explain existence,such as man has.You would need to replace Religion with something else.
This,in my opinion,would give rise to the "worshiping" of Men instead of invisible deities.
Leading to mankind worshiping Sects created by Man to fill the need.
I think that we see this happening today.As people lose faith in God/s they turn to Sects to fill in the void.
The trouble with Morals is understanding where they have come from.
My opinion is that any society or group needs a moral code to evolve.
e.g. Killing one of the same species would be detrimental to the species as a whole,unless the one killed had in some way endangered the group to the extent his/hers output within the group was negated by the act.
This was perhaps how morals began,now of course killing would be replaced by a softer option!
This way of living would give rise to morals and an ethical society.
God/s helped to reinforce this ideal.But I think they were actually a product of a morality that was already in place.
Religious teaching basically tells us what nature had imbued in us already.
Even Animals have codes of conduct to some extent (some may say preferable ones to Man!).
God/s just reinforce morals (in either a good or bad way,opinion differs).
Looking again a what I have written,I actually think that Religion was unavoidable.If we did not believe in Invisible gods then we would have just ended up believing in visible ones.
And that would just be Religion in another form.
And would have just as much of a negative and positive effect today,as the religion we now know.
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Post by lowrider on Sept 2, 2006 13:41:57 GMT
A quote attributed to Albert Einstein.......... " The more i study the universe,the more i believe in a Higher Power" Not "Joe" i assume but i wonder what he meant. |
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Post by Amaris on Sept 3, 2006 1:07:34 GMT
The trouble with Morals is understanding where they have come from. My opinion is that any society or group needs a moral code to evolve. e.g. Killing one of the same species would be detrimental to the species as a whole,unless the one killed had in some way endangered the group to the extent his/hers output within the group was negated by the act. This was perhaps how morals began,now of course killing would be replaced by a softer option! This way of living would give rise to morals and an ethical society. God/s helped to reinforce this ideal.But I think they were actually a product of a morality that was already in place. Religious teaching basically tells us what nature had imbued in us already. Yes, that makes sense to me. With religion, I don't understand why seemingly sensible people believe in their holy books which at their basis have extremely old myths intertwined with basic history. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2006 19:21:58 GMT
Ever played Chinese Whispers? I believe the bible is a naturally distorted account of events. It's human nature to embellish... |
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Post by Amaris on Sept 3, 2006 23:03:10 GMT
I think the Old Testament is just a history book & the New Testament is taking older myths and mixing them with the history of the times. Revelation is obviously written by someone who had too many mind altering drugs! |
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Post by gilgamesh on Sept 4, 2006 2:09:32 GMT
I think most theists start with the premise that it is unacceptable for a chain of causes to be infinite, therefore the universe must have had a first cause, the creator god. Sceptics have always challenged this argument with the fact that we have no problems envisioning an infinite future, we should have no reason to doubt that the chain of causes in the past should also be infinite.
The logical flaw in a creator god is a serious one, to my mind. Based on the premise that everything requires a cause..except god. If one thing can be self-existing, why can't this one thing be the universe itself?
We know how gravity gathers matter together into galaxies and then into stars that begin burning, how solar systems can form from rotating clouds of dust..we don't know how life originated exactly, but there are a number of plausible theories, organic molecules exist in space and we know the physics and chemistry of how DNA reproduces itself and makes the vast diversity of organisms on this planet..
To deny the truth and in particular to teach this to kids in creationist schools is a crime.
Evolution is the great designer, not a god.
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Post by tomm on Sept 21, 2006 22:04:04 GMT
Every civilisation in the world as turned to religion to answer the unanswerable, it's inevitable once the mind reaches a certain level of conciousness and it becomes aware of it's existence, that it will ask "who am I, and why am I here?". Computers will also think the same way when they eventually reach our level of conciousness, but in their case, they have a creator - us.
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Post by cheyanne71 on Sept 27, 2006 13:11:35 GMT
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Post by Amaris on Sept 27, 2006 13:29:16 GMT
I don't have a problem with evolution and a belief in a creator, I just have a problem with religious books  |
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Post by cheyanne71 on Sept 27, 2006 13:43:55 GMT
So why the anger Amaris?
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) anyway..most other religions follow the same or a similar belief. And yet, evolution has been proven. The evolutionary stages of man has been scientifically explained and accepted. Therefore, why do people still belive in God creating the world and man in 6 days ? Where do the dinasaurs fit in to this theory ? Whenever I've asked this question of people with strong religious beliefs they have always avoided the subject and quickly changed the conversation.
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