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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 16, 2006 19:25:05 GMT
A lot of people who are close to people with difficulties such as Down's say that, and it puzzles me somewhat.... Surely all the things you love about your brother would still be there? What I mean is, if, somehow, he could be "healed" of Down's, then surely the only things to change would be the "unwanted" parts (for want of a better word; in no way do I mean that in an unpleasant way); for instance, learning difficulties, speech/language problems etc. He would still be the brother you love, though, personality wise, wouldn't he? Thats how i see it Just imagine how much more someones personality could flourish if they could be free of their limitations
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Post by mamagpi on Oct 16, 2006 20:49:50 GMT
I think the touble is with healing is probably its title....
No one person can cure another of an illness or disability on science can do that in time. The idea of healing is to help people cope with what they have and maybe bring some relief, even if that relief is only for half an hour a day..but for this to work you obviously have to believe it is going to work, which in a sense is no different to taking pills, I can convince myself a pill wont work and guess what ..it doesnt. Healing works along side of medicine as I have mentioned before, it does not replace it and no healer worth their salt will say it does. How many has any one had a bad head and your loved one has just massaged it gently and the headache has eased or dissappeared ? well in a sense that could be classed as healing.
I dont like faith healers or any healer that professes to be able to cure and I certainly dont like the ones that con either.
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Post by calamitykate on Oct 16, 2006 20:55:33 GMT
Hmm, well.... not really. For example, the last lot of antibiotics I had were for a septic finger (sorry if TMI). However hard I would have tried for the pills NOT to work, I am 100% sure that despite all my efforts, the infection would have cleared.
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Post by calamitykate on Oct 16, 2006 21:00:10 GMT
I agree. But "Proponent of dodgy, psychosomatic, mind-over-matter, Placebo effect mumbo-jumbo" doesn't look half so mysterious and impressive on your passport as "Healer", does it?
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Post by mamagpi on Oct 16, 2006 21:14:33 GMT
Hmm, well.... not really. For example, the last lot of antibiotics I had were for a septic finger (sorry if TMI). However hard I would have tried for the pills NOT to work, I am 100% sure that despite all my efforts, the infection would have cleared. ah but thats just it isnt, healers cant cure infection or a source of pain..so no if i convinced my self an antibiotic wouldnt work i would be fighting a losing battle but as for the pain side of it, well thats a different matter, if you suffer from constant back pain as i do, there are sometimes i will say 'these arent going to do any good, other pain killers havent helped' and because that thought is in my mind i can actually block the pain killer and convinced this brain of mine they just wont work... i am sure i made sense in there some where
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Post by steve on Oct 16, 2006 23:01:20 GMT
I think the touble is with healing is probably its title.... No one person can cure another of an illness or disability on science can do that in time. The idea of healing is to help people cope with what they have and maybe bring some relief, even if that relief is only for half an hour a day..but for this to work you obviously have to believe it is going to work, which in a sense is no different to taking pills, I can convince myself a pill wont work and guess what ..it doesnt. Healing works along side of medicine as I have mentioned before, it does not replace it and no healer worth their salt will say it does. How many has any one had a bad head and your loved one has just massaged it gently and the headache has eased or dissappeared ? well in a sense that could be classed as healing. I dont like faith healers or any healer that professes to be able to cure and I certainly dont like the ones that con either. i agree with that...u can be "healed" of a head ache thru massage, or even suggestion, sure psychosematically, and thru the energy of the person "healing " you...they can cure pain and i know that from first hand experience..the body is a very complex organ and when the circuits arent all functioning properly then you will feel some discomfort..u dont necessarily have to take a pill to cure it..pills havent been around forever, yet there has always been knowledge of healing...when the mind is at ease then a lot of the time it will help your physical health...sure, maybe there is no way they can cure downs syndrome, but they can help with other ailments...there seems to be a resistance from sceptics to let the idea of suggestibility be seen as okay...whats wrong with it if it works? like i said, these healers wont be able to cure downs but i very much doubt any of the honest ones would claim theyd be able to anyway.... there are alternatives to pills and scalpels for some ailments...the word disease means exactly that DIS-EASE....when someone is ill at ease they can become diseased, and ill.. i think in fact that more research should be done on psychosematic healing cos as it stands, we have the choice between pills and surgery which incedentally makes vast fortunes for multinational companies such as smithcline beacham and so on...
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Post by skeptomatic on Oct 17, 2006 0:09:23 GMT
Pastor Theo is nasty. Why would any self-respecting, God-loving pastor leave his congregation in South Africa, which is racked by AIDS and poverty, to go and 'heal' the wealthy of America. Apart from the fact he's a fake, he's a foul and unprincipled human being.
Unscrupulous b@stard.
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Post by steve on Oct 17, 2006 0:48:48 GMT
say no more
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 11:28:56 GMT
No....but then neither does "Trying your best through your own personal belief and study, based upon that personal belief structure that lawfully and within the human rights acts states you are entitled to have without ridicule, and having this belief hope to give in some shape or form based upon the aforementioned belief, aid another for the sole purpose of bringing some relief to that aforementioned other"
No..far better to have Healer on that passport!
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 11:35:18 GMT
If just one person was healed..just one by a faith healer. Noone would believe it in anycase! It would be dismissed ,torn apart and god knows what. What if that healer only ever truly had been able t heal one person. It would be dismissed. Because no one would believe that this was possible, because that healer would have only been ableto show one example. Based on the..well why arnt there anymore you have healed then attitude, the possibility that this can happen would be dismissed.
Who would believe it?
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Post by calamitykate on Oct 17, 2006 11:39:56 GMT
If just one person was healed..just one by a faith healer. Noone would believe it in anycase! It would be dismissed ,torn apart and god knows what. What if that healer only ever truly had been able t heal one person. It would be dismissed. Because no one would believe that this was possible, because that healer would have only been ableto show one example. Based on the..well why arnt there anymore you have healed then attitude, the possibility that this can happen would be dismissed. Who would believe it? Who wouldn't be able to believe it, if it really happened? Come on, if you had, say, someone who had advanced, terminal cancer, and they went OVERNIGHT from death's door to full health, or someone COMPLETELY, long-term paralysed who got up and walked - that is the sort of thing that nobody could deny.
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 11:47:00 GMT
Terminal Cancer would mean medical intervention/Hospital care etc, just because some silly Healer person sat there praying by the bedisde all night that doesnt mean he/her healed that person. Surely it would be because of medical care,drugs etc..I mean maybe the placebo affect brought on by the healers present might have started the chain reaction as such, but lets not give credit to the healer. Surely what possibly some deem miraculous recoveries because a healer sat with them for weeks arnt miraculous at all. Good god no you cant give the healer any credit for that.. can you?
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 17, 2006 11:53:36 GMT
Good points Kendra.
If a healer wants to prove themselves they must cure a physical disability, something like Downs Syndrome, something that is irrefutable
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 17, 2006 11:55:23 GMT
Cure David Blunkett of his blindness. That would be pretty high profile dont you think. And undeniable by the sceptics.
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 12:00:05 GMT
But all these obvious disabilities would be in some shape or form recieving care or support other than a healer... Take my son for instance..he is on no drugs what so ever for his Autism. Yet he has advanced and is now speaking etc, behaviour calmed down and so on. Now if tomorrow a healer came along and all of a sudden the Autism had vanished....Even I would put this down to the support etc he is recieving from school and us. Of course it would make me think twice,but still the positive changes in my mind would be more educational etc than a healer! And sad to admit..the healer may well have done the deed, but wouldntget my credit either for it
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Post by shazzz on Oct 17, 2006 12:01:12 GMT
The sceptics would still say it was nothing to do with a healer but a coincidence lol
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 17, 2006 12:04:36 GMT
He is receiving no treatment, he is 100% blind, no cure, end of story.
You mentioned your son, I agree that if they"healed" him, it would have doubt. How about they heal someone with downsyndrome, could you argue against that?
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 12:20:46 GMT
The sceptics would still say it was nothing to do with a healer but a coincidence lol Exactly!
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Post by fromtheotherside on Oct 17, 2006 12:26:02 GMT
But people before who have been blind from birth have suddenyl recovered there sight! Medically it has been put down to something about the nervous structure etc or whatever around the eye itself. I would love to believe that if a healer was involved then that possibility would be taken on board..Just cant see it happening!
ummm yup Theres downs syndrome kids in Aidoans school, not where he is as his in The Autistic unit as this school specialises in this area. But Down syndrome still conected to genetics in some shape or form,as they connect Autism(though not proved what causes Autism) But these kids would still be recieveing treatment,support etc..and not all downs syndrome kids are on medication! Just like Aidoan. Just like Downssyndrome,Autism until this day cannot be cured,The big difference is,immediatly you can normally tell when someone has downs syndrome, you cant with Autism.
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Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 17, 2006 13:50:17 GMT
Ok, get a woman who has had a full hysterectomy. Get a medic to confirm she has had everything rmeoved Then let a healer heal her, and but it all back
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