I've just heard today that the ex-Pope, John Paul the second, is having his sainthood fast-tracked because he 'cured a nun of Parkinson's Disease from beyond the grave'. Apparently, having performed a miracle is one of the criteria any wanna be saint must meet.
They decided that he had performed a miracle after the nun in question wrote in a legible manner after having prayed to the dead pope. This, apparently, is proof that she has been cured.
So I've got a few questions. 1) Are miracles real? 2) Why would a nun pray to the Pope unstead of God? 3) Where's the proof that this is a miracle? 4) Why was this nun singled out for help, and why are only a miniscule number of sick people 'cured' when they pray, or visit Lourdes, for example? 5)What's the point of being a saint?
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
1: miracles are real depending on your definiton of a miracle. If you have an illness and its terminal or no known cure and it just clears up then this is a miracle. The medical profession however likes to refer to this as spontaneous remission, that is to say they see the illness has gone, and dont know why. There are two choices here, A: you were cured by God, By assigning the "cure" to God you reinforce your pre conceived religious belief and this brings mental and theological comfort. B: your body cured itself through a triggered immuno response. This is a little understood process that is in its infancy and there is little supportive data. Which option seems the most complete?
2: She prayed to Pope John Paul 2nd because he too in life was suffering of Parkinsons disease, maybe she felt that he of all people would understand her predicament.
3: for anything to be considered a miracle it must be rigourously (theologically?) tested by the vatican. They usually by process of elimination exclude what it could be and what it could not. This testing period usually takes 10 years, for example a cancer, but in this case it has been deemed instant because there is no cure at all for parkinsons disease. The nun is apparantly in complete remission.
4: as far as I know this nun was not singled out by any supernatural lottery, I would argue anyone is cured in this fashion, only seemingly so.
5: a saint is an exemplary member of the faith, exhalted to sainthood as an inspiration for others, after death there is a process of cannonisation which leads to final beautification (sainthood)
personaly, sainthood..cannonisation etc, has always seemed a little gimmickyfied for the catholics, but having said that no doubt i shall in all likelyhood be singled out and excommunicated by some..? if someone has recieved a miracle, then i would have imagined that the so called miracle would have come from god himself as opposed to someone that was born a mere mortal and full of sin etc? even if it was only the form of natural sin that all men are born in to or ladies for that matter..?
just due to the fact that some individual had a certain condition and then someone prays to them that they would be cured of that condition, does that mean that they are meant for saintdom?..personaly i suffered from and still do from a serious heart condition, if someone preys to me that they would survive the same condition that they also had does that mean i can apply for sainthood when i pass away at some time in the future?..probably not so wheres the difference..personaly i just think that sainthood as with confessionals where a man can forgive the sins no matter what of another man just due to the fact that he wears a priests gown and went to thological school for a certain amount of years, that he can forgive another mans sins on behalf of god the creator of all the heavans and earth of heaven and hell, well goes to show the extent of certain mens belief in the almighty power that they believe that they have. although if others wish to give them that power of at least the earthly endowment of it then they have only themselves to blame ?
I heard a very good comment on this yesterday. Someone pointed out that John Paul II could have saved a lot more people by agreeing to the use of condoms to prevent AIDS than by bestowing his amazing curative powers on some nuns.
I think the particular nun in question prayed to the pope because apparently the Catholic church allows prayer to saints (I am the daughter of a lapsed Catholic so I am a bit rusty on the terms and conditions) - although he's not a saint yet. bobdezon - I know what a saint is, I just don't see the point of them today (I was under the impression that the process involved martyrdom, but again, I don't know very much about the modern Catholic Church). Again, with question 3, where is the proof that this is a miracle(Cancer is also incurable)?
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
I heard a very good comment on this yesterday. Someone pointed out that John Paul II could have saved a lot more people by agreeing to the use of condoms to prevent AIDS than by bestowing his amazing curative powers on some nuns.
I think the particular nun in question prayed to the pope because apparently the Catholic church allows prayer to saints (I am the daughter of a lapsed Catholic so I am a bit rusty on the terms and conditions) - although he's not a saint yet. bobdezon - I know what a saint is, I just don't see the point of them today (I was under the impression that the process involved martyrdom, but again, I don't know very much about the modern Catholic Church). Again, with question 3, where is the proof that this is a miracle(Cancer is also incurable)?
The catholic church bans contraception because the more catholics there are, the more souls they can harvest for god, and at the end times when the balance of souls is weighed they allegedly win on numbers. This is also known as the "every sperm is sacred" battleplan.
The point of saints is simply as an example for the faithful, think of it as papal merchandising or gnostic celebrity endorsment.
Some forms of cancer are curable, while others go into remission with radiological treatment, if medical intervention is cited then it cannot be a miracle, If however there is a cancer that has not been treated medicinally and it goes into spontaneous remission this could theoretically be considered as a miracle pending review.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
well the other day i got a realy realy bad headache, i never usualy get them, and i actualy asked my friend mr absolut not to give me another one the next morning, and low and behold the next morning i woke up and i didnt have one...wondering if that actualy may be acceptable , if so then a new marketing motif may actualy be at hand....watch this page... ;D
I really don't care. They're all pointless. He doesn't remain anything, he doesn't exist on earth any more. It's like high-up army toffs who hold on to their titles after they've retired. Only that's slightly more understandable, because at least the army toffs are still alive.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
I've just heard today that the ex-Pope, John Paul the second, is having his sainthood fast-tracked because he 'cured a nun of Parkinson's Disease from beyond the grave'. Apparently, having performed a miracle is one of the criteria any wanna be saint must meet.
They decided that he had performed a miracle after the nun in question wrote in a legible manner after having prayed to the dead pope. This, apparently, is proof that she has been cured.
So I've got a few questions. 1) Are miracles real? 2) Why would a nun pray to the Pope unstead of God? 3) Where's the proof that this is a miracle? 4) Why was this nun singled out for help, and why are only a miniscule number of sick people 'cured' when they pray, or visit Lourdes, for example? 5)What's the point of being a saint?
I've just heard today that the ex-Pope, John Paul the second
ex-Pope! Since when was he an ex pope. He died Pope and so remains one.
Since when was he an ex pope
Since he died! He held the office of Pope, an elected role, now he's expired, personally I figure ex-Pope pretty much sums him up. You cant remain to be the Pope when you die and they've elected a new one, it sort of messes the whole system up, the paperwork alone would be a nightmare.
'All through this short life we give of ourselves, giving and giving and slowly diminishing. Leaving a mark that will gradually fade, ash in the breeze, snowballs in negative.'
;D
