Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 20, 2007 0:39:52 GMT
But form what you worte earlier ,you certianly do not question it,your mind is already made up on the subject!
As is yours Kendra, in fact you are one of the most closeminded people Ihave ever met when it comes to your own so called abilities, you came close, i admit that, you came very very close to opening your mind, but alas you didnt.
People I have read for on a normal basis would argue that point me thinks. And unless you were actually there as a witness to the reading and know yourself the personal information I passed on...you can only ever surmise.
But none of the people you have ever read for and been successful with have the knowledge that I do when it comes to preventing cheating would you agree?
The very fact that you have convinced believers, or even uneducated sceptics that you are the real deal, doesnt really hold any weight does it.
Have you convinced a single person, whose opinion any of us would care about?
Have you convinced a single person who has knowledge of cold reading, trickery and so on, and how to prevent it?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
But form what you worte earlier ,you certianly do not question it,your mind is already made up on the subject!
As is yours Kendra, in fact you are one of the most closeminded people Ihave ever met when it comes to your own so called abilities, you came close, i admit that, you came very very close to opening your mind, but alas you didnt.
People I have read for on a normal basis would argue that point me thinks. And unless you were actually there as a witness to the reading and know yourself the personal information I passed on...you can only ever surmise.
But none of the people you have ever read for and been successful with have the knowledge that I do when it comes to preventing cheating would you agree?
The very fact that you have convinced believers, or even uneducated sceptics that you are the real deal, doesnt really hold any weight does it.
Have you convinced a single person, whose opinion any of us would care about?
Have you convinced a single person who has knowledge of cold reading, trickery and so on, and how to prevent it?
yes My new Mantra ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right......Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right
But form what you worte earlier ,you certianly do not question it,your mind is already made up on the subject!
How would you know?
Do you think I came to this decision lightly? I have researched witnessed, studied the so called paranormal for many years. Sat at seances had readings and much more. I once was a believer & thought I had experienced any things, but in the cold light of day everything I have experienced has been pure buncum. I had been fooled. So, yes, I have questioned.
The field of this subject is based on lies, and money making. If there were a GENUINE "medium" out there, we would have heard about them.
How do you know you had been fooled? Someone told you that you had been? Showed you how you could have been?Did you read a book on cold reading/hot reading/luke bloody warm reading?
Serioulsy I am not being sarcastic etc...im interested.. how dd you come to the conclusion that you had been fooled,and that the varying experinces you had were hallucinatins or whatever?
By finding out about cold reading. I couldn't believe that I could be conned but after a very close friend filled me in on the methods used I began to feed false info back and surprise surprise it was all "good" info coming back. So my dear departed granny wasn't talking to me I was talking to myself. Once I tuned my thoughts to logical explanations every little bump and noise became much clearer.
Basic logic and scientific research along with the lack of real evidence leads me to the conclusion that none of this is real. Just a longing to survive death. To live on in one form or another. To me our needs start with religion and a false belief that there is an afterlife. I could ramble on for ever on that part of my belief but I won't.
I am always open minded but I would need more than one accurate reading for my opinion to even begin to budge in the belief that mediums are connecting with something other than just their imaginations.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 21, 2007 0:40:00 GMT
kendra said:
...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right......Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right
You may be taking the piss, but the funny thing is that i have a 100% record when it comes to any argument or debate with you.
Even when you have rang me up, ranting and raving, you ALWAYS end up apologising after realising you were wrong.
I have met EVERY challenge you have presented me.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right......Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right ...Jon is right....Jons the best...Jons always right
You may be taking the piss, but the funny thing is that i have a 100% record when it comes to any argument or debate with you.
Even when you have rang me up, ranting and raving, you ALWAYS end up apologising after realising you were wrong.
I have met EVERY challenge you have presented me.
Jon,many of the above I disagree on,you do not have 100% record when it comes to debates with me,our debates normally end up getting removed,normally because you tend to stoop to personal levels of attack during your side of the debate which has bene witnesses on this board time and time again: That to me is not putting forward a strong argument,it is actually a failing.
Now lets just agree to disagree regarding certain things,as we will never agree on some things. ok
By finding out about cold reading. I couldn't believe that I could be conned but after a very close friend filled me in on the methods used
Just because some may use this method,this does not mean that all do.Also just because something can be recreated this does not always follow that is exactly how it was done. Why were you so ready to give up your own personal belief?
I began to feed false info back and surprise surprise it was all "good" info coming back
did you do this to the same people that read for you previously?All of them?
So my dear departed granny wasn't talking to me I was talking to myself. Once I tuned my thoughts to logical explanations every little bump and noise became much clearer.
Would you be willing to add on here or PM me personally with some info that at the time astounded or convinced you?
Basic logic and scientific research along with the lack of real evidence leads me to the conclusion that none of this is real
No,it seems just the scientific,logic and doubting friends(no doubt intentions were good) actually led you to believe you were given false info. How can you apply logic to something that by all scientific thought is illogical?
Just a longing to survive death. To live on in one form or another.
And what if there is no afterlife,once yur dead your not going to know any different..is this the only reason you believed? To simply fear death is not enough for anyone to believe in the afterlife,there normally is something else there,an experience or such like that triggers that belief.
To me our needs start with religion and a false belief that there is an afterlife. I could ramble on for ever on that part of my belief but I won't.
Religion ismore faith,personal belief is seperate to that....Im interested in your loss of belief not your faith! And talking about your own personal belief whether a believer,non believer or a fence sitter..is never rambling! why would you think your would be?
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Feb 21, 2007 9:27:53 GMT
I think they have shown great intelligence, and a truly open mind. You kendra should stop trying to "convert" them back to the world of nonsense, they have done something great, and we should all take inspiration from any believer who has been able to educate themselves and find out the truth about something
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
I think they have shown great intelligence, and a truly open mind. You kendra should stop trying to "convert" them back to the world of nonsense, they have done something great, and we should all take inspiration from any believer who has been able to educate themselves and find out the truth about something
I agree but they should also consider and look at ALL possible explanations.
Right lets sort this once and for all shall we Jon?
I think they have shown great intelligence, and a truly open mind
No Jon,they were being friends..simple as that!
You kendra should stop trying to "convert" them back to the world of nonsense,
How dare you..where have I suggested once that his friends were wrong? Where have I suggested he goes back to believing? I have not suggested,hinted or anything like that. Unlike you I am trying to do is get him balance out the entire picture,and not be rollarcoaster into one train of thought. I am actually doing the exact opposite of what your are stating I am doing. The roller coasting and trying to get him to believe in 1 thing is what you are expert at,not I!
And unlike you, I am genuinely interested in what he has to say even if it is the exact opposite of my experiences or belief...I am interested in his experiences etc,his change in belief and so on! I am not seeing this as an opportunity to jump in where I can and change him, or keep him on side.
This is about Ludwig Jon..Not you!
they have done something great
Have they?
and we should all take inspiration from any believer who has been able to educate themselves and find out the truth about something
Jon,you were not there at his readings,neither was I. I cannot state the readings originally received were conclusive or fraudulent. And neither can his friends,which i have no doubt had all good intentions.But this is why I am asking questions and not bloody well presuming something nd reading into things as I wish to see them. Don't ever suggest I convert..EVER You obviously do not know me well enough to make that proclamation Jon! So why don't you wind your neck in, and actually allow the guy to think for himself.He obviously isn't stupid...so give him some credit. Why did you jump in by the way? I did not at any point see that he would again believe..yet you did? Why so fearful of that Jon?
Also...do you realise that it is your type of attitude and continually knocking people to the floor,that makes them think what they have to say,or their belief or what it was etc is rambling and not important..How despicable is that to do to another! and so very..very wrong in all sense of the word!
Sorry to take so long in answering your questions.
I'll try to sum them up as best as I can. I/We lived in a house that was supposedly haunted, in fact one room had what would be described as an atmosphere a rather oppressing one to be honest. Apart from my parents my siblings and I would go to extreme lengths not to go in that room and if we did it was in and out very quickly. Any noise that we thought we heard from that room was put down to some kind of paranormal event. After my Grandmother died (who I was very close to) I wanted to try to get in touch with her spirit. Now this was going back to the days of Doris Stokes all very pre Derek Acorah etc. I was put in contact with a local medium who held regular sittings. I was astounded with some of the things that she came up with. It wasn't until a friend of mine explained that much of the info that I gleaned came from myself. so after a few visits after that I started to "Agree" with some of the things that were being reported back to me by the "spirit" of my Gran, all of which were totally wrong. So I went away tuned my mind into logical thinking, that the dead do not come back and nothing haunts us. As soon as I did that the room in our house held no fear for me and the oppressing feeling disappeared. In fact I moved into that room and used it as a bed sitter until I left home.
So I suppose that applying logic and taking away the power of suggestion change my whole outlook on the so called paranormal world. I think that during my life I've been lucky through my work to travel and meet people of different persuasions to ourselves. Some in fact laugh at the fact that many in the Western world belive in such folly.
I did try once to write down what I believed and what I thought what drove others to believe in spiritualism etc, I came to the conclusion that the amount of writing to cover it all would fill a warehouse, but all I could manage was a page and a bit. Which I would submit to your Admin for others to pick over and try to understand what I'm trying to say.
This subject is never ending and will go around in circles for ever and a day.
Sorry to take so long in answering your questions.
No matter..many thaks you have
I'll try to sum them up as best as I can. I/We lived in a house that was supposedly haunted, in fact one room had what would be described as an atmosphere a rather oppressing one to be honest. Apart from my parents my siblings and I would go to extreme lengths not to go in that room and if we did it was in and out very quickly. Any noise that we thought we heard from that room was put down to some kind of paranormal event. After my Grandmother died (who I was very close to) I wanted to try to get in touch with her spirit. Now this was going back to the days of Doris Stokes all very pre Derek Acorah etc. I was put in contact with a local medium who held regular sittings. I was astounded with some of the things that she came up with. It wasn't until a friend of mine explained that much of the info that I gleaned came from myself. so after a few visits after that I started to "Agree" with some of the things that were being reported back to me by the "spirit" of my Gran, all of which were totally wrong. So I went away tuned my mind into logical thinking, that the dead do not come back and nothing haunts us. As soon as I did that the room in our house held no fear for me and the oppressing feeling disappeared. In fact I moved into that room and used it as a bed sitter until I left home.
Totally understand,we fear what we do not understand,whether it is paranormal in nature or fear induced...when we understand it in the light of day as such,the fear goes.
So I suppose that applying logic and taking away the power of suggestion change my whole outlook on the so called paranormal world.
Now you could be right,and I am not suggesting your wrong in any shape or form, we have all had wardrobes,under the bed monsters etc.. But I am wondering,does this mean that because of one event that turned out to be non fatual,does this then follow all events are the same? Just curios to your thoughts on this.
I think that during my life I've been lucky through my work to travel and meet people of different persuasions to ourselves. Some in fact laugh at the fact that many in the Western world belive in such folly.
Very true, as the age of technology etc dawns upon us,the old wives tales etc are thankfully dismissed and put to rest.. But I wonder,Im not suggesting this is the same in your case.But I do wonder if many change there opinion/belief for fear of ridicule or they feel silly if their piers do not share the same belief,or even mock it.. Its totally understandable and natural infact to not want to be different from others.BUt I do wonder if others,maybe not as you have done here with logic and reasoning,but I wonder if there belief has changed for fear of mockery..
I did try once to write down what I believed and what I thought what drove others to believe in spiritualism etc, I came to the conclusion that the amount of writing to cover it all would fill a warehouse
I think taht true for many matey..some mor ethan others ;D
but all I could manage was a page and a bit. Which I would submit to your Admin for others to pick over and try to understand what I'm trying to say.
With all respect,and I mean this sincerely..Why would it nee dto be picked over by admin or anyone else.If that is your opinion and what you believe leads people to the spiritualist way of thinking then that is true to you.And no one has any business in picking at anything.
This subject is never ending and will go around in circles for ever and a day.
Oh indeedy
Justto say,thank you Ludwig..cheers for adding your experience and why you changed your belief to the board..many thanks matey..I mean that..
Now you could be right,and I am not suggesting your wrong in any shape or form, we have all had wardrobes,under the bed monsters etc.. But I am wondering,does this mean that because of one event that turned out to be non factual,does this then follow all events are the same? Just curios to your thoughts on this.
I couldn't say if all events are the same, but I think that I had become conditioned into believing something that wasn't quite so. That is to say rumours that a certain room was "haunted" was stuck in my mind so as far as I was concerned it was true. But once I had changed my mind and too a positive view the whole ambiance of that room changed. That moment when I altered my outlook also changed many other things, since then I look at the logical side of things rather than the illogical.
Basically the majority of evidence as far as I can see, falls in the favour of there being no such thing as paranormal activities.
That to me is not putting forward a strong argument,it is actually a failing.
why would you think your would be?
You obviously do not know me well enough to make that proclamation Jon!
