By construction I meant the brain etc. Not builders. Males are scientifically proven to be more autistic on the whole because they are slightly more inclined to follow repeated patterns such as drawing/diagram and rules etc.
Sorry in thick mode here, are you saying it has been scientifically proven that the inclination to follow repeated patterns,drawings/diagram and rules etc are Autistic traits or that these are traits are of Autism? Not being funny here I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly ;D
Exaggeration is caused by many things including the susceptability of the individual to the MMR possible intolerance that is not testable as of yet.
Totally agree, I mean one moment potatoes can give you cancer then the next they don't But regarding additives etc in food affecting kid within the Autistic Spectrum...you cant get the placebo affect with Autistic kids. By taking these out of their diet and there is a noticeable change,it ain't because you told them there would be,nor would they perceive beforehand there would be.Time and again it has been proven that Autistic kids tend to suffer with irritable bowel etc that gluten based products act as an irritant etc. So it does make sense to try and remove that from a child's diet. The overall affect of a healthy/unhealthy bowel can have a huge impact on our overall general health.
Regarding additives/pesticides and so on, to remove these from any child's or adults diet for that matter surely could only have a positive impact, it certainly wouldn't do any harm
I was wondering if any other parents with children with autism spectrum disorder has tried changes in their children's diets? I've talked about this before in other posts, but never had a comment on it.
HI scarfyrre to be honest no we haven't. Our youngest child can eat like the proverbial horse but is picky. Maybe in our situation it's because it's happened in two of our children. The youngest has a wonderful personality, etc, but I don't think his diet would alter his symptoms to such an extent.
I'm also worried about getting too wrapped up in trying this and that, if that makes sense. But if there was ever anything substantial to deal with I wouldn't hesitate. Good advice though taken on board..thank you
you cant get the placebo affect with Autistic kids.
You most certainly can. Have you heard of the placebo effect by proxy? It's based on the 'transactional model' of interpersonal communication. Research into Ritalin use in kids with ADHD shows this effect. Ritalin may not actually be as useful as is thought because of this placebo effect by proxy.
And if you yourself are the person carrying out the 'experiment' you can't remove your own bias either.
When you see claims on websites regarding e-numbers you often get claims of kids being perfectly calm one minute and then after eating smarties (or whatever) they are 'bouncing off the walls' the next minute.
The funny thing is, when kids are tested in double blind trials, the researchers can't usually tell the difference as to whether the kids have consumed e-numbers or not because their behaviour doesn't change.
In other words, we have a tendency to see what it is we think we should be seeing - expectation effects.
Autism is not caused by the MMR vaccine it is mearly exagerated. Boys get more autism than girls because the majority of males construction is a pattern following structure, they like order and such alike things which autistic people follow on the whole. Its structure based and anyone can be born with any structure of mental variance but boys have more of the pattern structure etc. The cause is unknown as of yet, other than a mental anomoly that has to be understood and possibly overcome etc.
Hello blackadder I think you mean boys run a higher risk of becoming autistic. I'm sorry but autism, as far as I'm aware, has nothing to do with males liking order, etc. Girls are as ordered and structured if not more so..boys tend to be far more lax. I've never heard this theory before but if you have a link I'd be pleased to look at it. I do agree though, we need answers and as soon as possible.
By construction I meant the brain etc. Not builders. Males are scientifically proven to be more autistic on the whole because they are slightly more inclined to follow repeated patterns such as drawing/diagram and rules etc. Exaggeration is caused by many things including the susceptability of the individual to the MMR possible intolerance that is not testable as of yet.
I agree that the MMR could play a part BUT so could a lot of things we take for granted daily that are unknown to us in that respect. But again I'm sorry as far as I'm aware, and being a mum of two children with varying degrees of autism, I've never heard of the drawing/diagram and rules you speak of. A link would be interesting..thank you!
I was wondering if any other parents with children with autism spectrum disorder has tried changes in their children's diets? I've talked about this before in other posts, but never had a comment on it.
HI scarfyrre to be honest no we haven't. Our youngest child can eat like the proverbial horse but is picky. Maybe in our situation it's because it's happened in two of our children. The youngest has a wonderful personality, etc, but I don't think his diet would alter his symptoms to such an extent.
I'm also worried about getting too wrapped up in trying this and that, if that makes sense. But if there was ever anything substantial to deal with I wouldn't hesitate. Good advice though taken on board..thank you
You would be surprised at what a diet could do to alleviate some of the symptoms. Check out the Feingold Diet. After the initial "cleansing" period (which I admit was a right pain in the arse), following what my son could eat became second nature. There's a book with a list of foods that are "safe" and I just went to the store and highlighted what my local groceries had.
It's not a cure no matter what Jenny McCarthy says, but it sure made life better for all of us. Even my son's teachers noticed the difference, and this was before the behavior therapy.
Kendra -- Thanks for the link. Yes, I live in the US (Georgia to be exact), and although the chemicals are labeled differently, it looks as if they're the same offenders. I'll have to bookmark that link as we're planning a trip over some day.
As far as the few naysayers, let me just mention this: I'm 43, and I know we didn't have near as much processed food as we do now. Except for the occasional treat of candy, we ate fresh foods every day. I know here in the States obesity is ridiculous and children are being diagnosed left and right with ADD/ADHD, and after personal experience with diet changes not to mention seeing what other moms put in their carts at the store, I can only guess there has to be some sort of link.
I've always been something of a hippie, and was even a vegetarian for a few years so perhaps I'm a bit biased with watching what I eat, but I can tell you this: I don't need any scientific study to tell me what I'm doing is right. I see it. His teachers see it. Even our neighbor sees it. That's enough of a study for me.
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I agree that the MMR could play a part BUT so could a lot of things we take for granted daily that are unknown to us in that respect. But again I'm sorry as far as I'm aware, and being a mum of two children with varying degrees of autism, I've never heard of the drawing/diagram and rules you speak of. A link would be interesting..thank you!
If MMR was not the cause how can one explain that a child who hit all their milestones walking talking and doing things an ordinary child would hit at that age, who had their vaccine at 21 months old changed within days of having the vaccine? also have bowel complaints too? is this just co incidence?
I don't need any scientific study to tell me what I'm doing is right. I see it.
Bloody naysayers eh?
What's the point of scientific research when people like you just know they're right? ;D
I thought we were supposed to be skeptics on here. You know: doubt, inquire, evaluate, and form justified conclusions (if possible)....
The point for me, as a parent, is I see my child spitting on his father and screaming he's going to kill him, kill himself, I hate you and all the other lovely violent things he does when he eats certain foods, and when he doesn't he's much calmer, acts more like a normal ten year old ( still argues, but that's normal , and doesn't threaten Daddy on a daily basis.
I lived it. I don't need a scientist to tell me it works or not. I did my own evaluations using methods they would have used, found he's sensitive to THBC and certain dyes, and when he eats those he goes bat sh*t.
It's not that I "just know," I lived it. I saw it. Every day with this child that had outbursts because of frustration. I wanted to run away from home it was so bad. Then the diet, and after a few months some therapy for the whole family to learn how to work around his brain's misfiring, and life is now manageable.
I don't need my government to spend several millions of dollars to tell me what I've lived works. Skepticism isn't welcome when trying to save my child.
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What's the point of scientific research when people like you just know they're right? ;D
I thought we were supposed to be skeptics on here. You know: doubt, inquire, evaluate, and form justified conclusions (if possible)....
The point for me, as a parent, is I see my child spitting on his father and screaming he's going to kill him, kill himself, I hate you and all the other lovely violent things he does when he eats certain foods, and when he doesn't he's much calmer, acts more like a normal ten year old ( still argues, but that's normal , and doesn't threaten Daddy on a daily basis.
I lived it. I don't need a scientist to tell me it works or not. I did my own evaluations using methods they would have used, found he's sensitive to THBC and certain dyes, and when he eats those he goes bat sh*t.
It's not that I "just know," I lived it. I saw it. Every day with this child that had outbursts because of frustration. I wanted to run away from home it was so bad. Then the diet, and after a few months some therapy for the whole family to learn how to work around his brain's misfiring, and life is now manageable.
I don't need my government to spend several millions of dollars to tell me what I've lived works. Skepticism isn't welcome when trying to save my child.
I have to agree with you here, diet can make a difference in a child's temperament. Having used the method myself at some stage by elimination of certain food types and change of diet has a dramatic effect, but it doesn't work for all children though!
Skepticism isn't welcome when trying to save my child.
It should be.
As I pointed out earlier regarding e-numbers, what people see and what's really there can be quite different in reality and if something does work, it might work for reasons other than you think (placebo effect by proxy etc.)
These sort of things are worth looking into because they might just enable parents to maximise the benefits for their children rather than believe that's what they're doing.
Skepticism is good (!)
Skepticism is what helps us gain a better understanding of things and it's what helps us choose between competing options, ideas or claims so we select the best one.
If you want to reject it for emotional reasons then that's your prerogative; but there is a good reason why people like me on here promote the use of skepticism - it's of great benefit to anyone who employs the method.
Skepticism isn't welcome when trying to save my child.
It should be.
As I pointed out earlier regarding e-numbers, what people see and what's really there can be quite different in reality and if something does work, it might work for reasons other than you think (placebo effect by proxy etc.)
These sort of things are worth looking into because they might just enable parents to maximise the benefits for their children rather than believe that's what they're doing.
Skepticism is good (!)
Skepticism is what helps us gain a better understanding of things and it's what helps us choose between competing options, ideas or claims so we select the best one.
If you want to reject it for emotional reasons then that's your prerogative; but there is a good reason why people like me on here promote the use of skepticism - it's of great benefit to anyone who employs the method.
I'm all for skepticism, and I don't reject it for watching what I feed my child for "emotional" reasons.
I said I reject it for this for my child because I don't need years of scientific examination to tell me what I already know. If I was doing something radical like drug therapy (I can't think of some of the quackery being used as "cures" for autism right off hand...it is too early for my brain to be on), but feeding my family fresh foods and avoiding petroleum-based additives is just good sense.
Everyone should eat better, avoid processed foods as much as possible, and exercise. Why be skeptical about being healthy?
I would, however, like to see some studies on the path I chose to help my son. Behavior modification and diet (with very low doses of medication for now to help him focus) really did the trick, and I even have the special ed teachers at his school asking me for information. I would like to see some numbers, but that really wouldn't change our choice. We'd already spent years dealing with his issues, and after much trial and error, found the right path.
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but feeding my family fresh foods and avoiding petroleum-based additives is just good sense.
Exactly!
Just to Echo scarffyre and Minxs statements, as I have mentioned previously,basically by restricting the crap from his diet and monitoring his reactions to various foods etc he is much calmer and far more able to sit for more than 15 seconds and absorb information.
Sceptisim is indeed a much needed thing in todays society,but sometimes that septicism can turn into cynicism and that is a danger in itself when looking for alternatives.
If I personally had listened to all the sceptics within the medical community that evaluated my son (barring one child psychologist) my son would not be riding a bike,speaking,swimming,dressing himself and so on. I wouldn't have even botherd spending weeks with him teaching him to ride a,working with his feet coordination,I wouldn't have spent months teaching him how to swim, to this day I would have been dressing him myself,I wouldn't have spent years day after day going over and over specific words,sticking those pictures to the cupboards,doors and so on to help him to learn words and speech. I was told categorically that he wouldn't be able to do any of the above.
The dangers of sceptism in regards to this subject is that it can destroy all hope, hope and determination is what kept me going all those weeks,months and years of absolute hell (anyone who has an autistic child will understand what I mean when I refer to it as hell) and that hope still does keep me going, still keeps thousands of parents going, still enables all those children out there to prove the medical sceptics wrong on a daily basis!
Parents live all the time in a very clear reality, hope allows us to cope with that reality and that of the future for our kids. When I think back to one of many consultations I had with a very sceptical Autistic expert. Apparently Autistic children have the inability to have imaginary play,pretend play. Well I would like him to tell my son that if he can get a word in edge ways as Aidoan is having conversations and imaginary play with his favorite toy Tigger
You would be surprised at what a diet could do to alleviate some of the symptoms. Check out the Feingold Diet. After the initial "cleansing" period (which I admit was a right pain in the arse), following what my son could eat became second nature. There's a book with a list of foods that are "safe" and I just went to the store and highlighted what my local groceries had.
It's not a cure no matter what Jenny McCarthy says, but it sure made life better for all of us. Even my son's teachers noticed the difference, and this was before the behavior therapy.
Thank you I'm now a little more intrigued to try. It's never been a big issue simply because our youngest son's behaviour hasn't been an issue..he's not withdrawn like many children can be with autism infact it's his language barrier that presents as the biggest obstacle. His routine and structure though has changed..now he doesn't like something out of place or even stories on a DVD, for eg, playing in the wrong order. You can always tell when he's been positioning things even when he's tired out. But I'll take a look and see if there's anything that could help
If MMR was not the cause how can one explain that a child who hit all their milestones walking talking and doing things an ordinary child would hit at that age, who had their vaccine at 21 months old changed within days of having the vaccine? also have bowel complaints too? is this just co incidence?
Our children had the vaccines at around 13 to 14 month and thankfully they've got no bowel problems. With the youngest he was so forward it amazed me from being born but slowly, around year old, he started missing his milestones, etc, as his all to evident skills slowly diminished. None of our children really suffered adverse effects after the innoculations..maybe a little temperature after a week or so which we were warned about. We, as parents, are as frustrated as thousands of others in similar situations even though I believe it's genetic. I'd still like to know the answers as I feel that maybe in some cases the vaccine triggered something.
There's so many different chemicals we introduce to our bodies everyday compared to only 30 years ago. Everything from toothpaste to chemicals on fruit and veg that human make-up can react to. The brain is the least understood part of our body and if it was unlocked somehow there'd be many answers to many questions..from autism to depression.
I don't need any scientific study to tell me what I'm doing is right. I see it.
Bloody naysayers eh?
What's the point of scientific research when people like you just know they're right? ;D
I thought we were supposed to be skeptics on here. You know: doubt, inquire, evaluate, and form justified conclusions (if possible)....
I'm sorry but when a parent is concerned about the welfare of their child it is only natural to feel as they do. I don't believe it was the MMR that caused our children's autism but I've no right to tell someone else they're wrong because they believe it is. I also don't believe that our youngest's diet will change things but I could be wrong.
Science and it's arrogance still hasn't given worried parents answers that we so rightly deserve and the rubbish we put, unknowingly, into our bodies each day is appalling. No one can understand the sheer disbelief and worry a parent goes through when their child/ren are ill or suffer a disability. But others can at least try to be understanding and give respect without telling them they're wrong. We're all individuals who love our children unconditionally..approaching a very sensitive subject that affects a childs life forever has to be done compassionately. Otherwise the same ignorance we endure by many of the public can rear it's all too ugly head again.
libbi -- if you have any questions or need support if/when you try the diet, please feel free to ask me.
It's really not a diet, per se, but just a guide to foods that have been tested to not include the chemicals. I went a bit overboard when starting it and baked my own bread and went all "Earth Mother", but then I relaxed and found many store bought breads that were just fine. My son did say the other day he missed my cookies.
I also started making my own cleaning products, which work just as well and smell nicer, and are so much cheaper! Castile soap is my friend.
The biggest perk was, of course, my son feeling better, but my health has improved a little and I lost five pounds after changing our eating habits. Even one of our dogs, who has severe allergies, has benefited from my more natural cleaning ways. He spent the last two Springs almost dying (several blood transfusions because he'd be so stuffy the veins in his nose would pop and he'd bleed out), but this year he's been perfectly fine. Yes, I admit I even put my animals on a more natural diet (wheat is a huge no-no for dogs), and even they are healthier for it.
Even if you or your family doesn't have autism, what's the harm in eating healthier and getting rid of the chemicals we don't need?
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I'm very glad to see you've had success with watching what your family eats.
I've been very lucky to have had doctors be open-minded to what we've tried. The only skeptics I've run into have been our neighbors, who sadly have a child my son's age that although he's been diagnosed with ADHD, I can see that he's probably autistic as well. Hell, I wouldn't even call them skeptics but non-believers! The mother is rather lazy when it comes to her child-rearing skills, and they've spoiled him greatly, so they don't want to hear something that might help him but that would actually cause her to cook (they eat out every night). She did, however, take my suggestion, that I got from our doctor, about giving melatonin to help him sleep at night.
It just breaks my heart because he's such a good kid, but they just don't want to deny him. He's 11, and do you know what she feeds him for breakfast every morning? A chicken biscuit from McDonald's and diet coke. Sigh. Mine gets bagels, waffles, scrambled eggs, toast, cereal...good healthy breakfasts. She feeds her candies so constantly his lips are blue, whereas mine gets it on special occaisions if he's lucky (ok, maybe a package of Skittles at the movies or if he's been especially helpful around the house). It literally breaks my heart that they won't even try to do right by him.
Enough babbling and feeling superior. Thank you, Kendra, for your lovely post. It is so true about being a parent and that we'll try anything to help our children. I wouldn't do quackery, but eating fresh foods and avoiding the nastier chemicals really couldn't be called that.
(As an aside that I have to share, today was the last day of school for the summer, and the teacher had the kids fill out fourth grade memories. One of the pages asked about the parents, and my son put down that "My mom and dad love me so much. They rock!" So I guess I'm doing something right. He's come so far in the last two years, it about makes me cry. I'm so proud of him.)
but feeding my family fresh foods and avoiding petroleum-based additives is just good sense.
Exactly!
Just to Echo scarffyre and Minxs statements, as I have mentioned previously,basically by restricting the crap from his diet and monitoring his reactions to various foods etc he is much calmer and far more able to sit for more than 15 seconds and absorb information.
Sceptisim is indeed a much needed thing in todays society,but sometimes that septicism can turn into cynicism and that is a danger in itself when looking for alternatives.
If I personally had listened to all the sceptics within the medical community that evaluated my son (barring one child psychologist) my son would not be riding a bike,speaking,swimming,dressing himself and so on. I wouldn't have even botherd spending weeks with him teaching him to ride a,working with his feet coordination,I wouldn't have spent months teaching him how to swim, to this day I would have been dressing him myself,I wouldn't have spent years day after day going over and over specific words,sticking those pictures to the cupboards,doors and so on to help him to learn words and speech. I was told categorically that he wouldn't be able to do any of the above.
The dangers of sceptism in regards to this subject is that it can destroy all hope, hope and determination is what kept me going all those weeks,months and years of absolute hell (anyone who has an autistic child will understand what I mean when I refer to it as hell) and that hope still does keep me going, still keeps thousands of parents going, still enables all those children out there to prove the medical sceptics wrong on a daily basis!
Parents live all the time in a very clear reality, hope allows us to cope with that reality and that of the future for our kids. When I think back to one of many consultations I had with a very sceptical Autistic expert. Apparently Autistic children have the inability to have imaginary play,pretend play. Well I would like him to tell my son that if he can get a word in edge ways as Aidoan is having conversations and imaginary play with his favorite toy Tigger
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I'm always interested in trying different things and pleasantly surprised if it works. Thankfully as you mention shops are taking on board peoples needs for dietary change so it's a good idea.
I haven't heard of Castile soap for years lol. That sounds interesting making your own cleaning products.
I can't believe that with your dog our male dog has been bleeding out recently infact there was a few spots today. You see you've already given me something else to think of because he also has allergies.
There's no harm at all scarfyrre..it's all too easy for me to grab a snack and think it will do but it's wrong to think that way. Thanks again my dear and I will contact you when I've got a little more time instead of a few minutes every now and again.