paranormal wounds and injuries

[PILLSBURY]

I've read about claims of such things and seen many tv shows where people have ended up with injuries such as scratches and the like and in some cases the moment that someone has been punched or hit or scratched has been caught on camera,albeit with scratches you dont see them until the persons clothes are lifted for it to be examined.

I know it is easy to fake a push or fall but what about red marks,scratches? I know in an ideal world the person who has suffered such an injury should be filmed prior to the investigation. But for the purpose of this thread I want people to base this discussion on the people being honest. So what scientific explanation is there for such wounds or injuries to happen?
I would also be interested in people discussing peoples claims of being lifted and thrown by invisible entities and again what scientific explanation there could be for such things, again assuming honesty and integrity fo the person involved.

If you need an example of this,there is an episode of ghost hunters at an armoury where a camera man ended up on the floor and although the footage is of poor quality it certainly looked like something or someone had threw him to the ground.

Again can we keep this based on the scientific explanations rather than its all tosh and thats that.

[The Legendary Barb]

I think you really should be asking this question of " M H,s " Karl and his sidekick Stuart. They are always getting scratched,punched and have been known to be dragged along floors,even loosing shoes in the process. I can not remember this happening to any one else in the show,though of cause it may have been the case.

It could well be a put up stunt!!!!! . On the other hand it could be that certain people attract this sort of attention from the so called spirit world more than others. These two just could be unlucky that way. ;D

[bobdezon]

Feb 17, 2010 12:03:55 GMT PILLSBURY said:

I've read about claims of such things and seen many tv shows where people have ended up with injuries such as scratches and the like and in some cases the moment that someone has been punched or hit or scratched has been caught on camera,albeit with scratches you dont see them until the persons clothes are lifted for it to be examined.

I have seen this on a few paranormal TV shows, and read several accounts where this has allegedly happened. It seems very dramatic.

I know it is easy to fake a push or fall but what about red marks,scratches?

Just as easy I'm afraid.

I know in an ideal world the person who has suffered such an injury should be filmed prior to the investigation. But for the purpose of this thread I want people to base this discussion on the people being honest.

Technically, this would have to be a hypothetical discussion then, because usually the person does this to themselves on purpose. However it is not unreasonable to assume that this can sometimes also happen accidentally. It has (as far as I know) yet to happen for a paranormal reason.

So what scientific explanation is there for such wounds or injuries to happen?

Assuming the person did not scratch or mark themselves on purpose for the dramatic effect, there could be several
likely candidates.

Dermatographic urticaria (a skin condition which enables writing or marking to appear, and last some time)

Autoimmune responses and diseases

Alergic reactions

Viral infections

Drug reactions

Toxins

Dermatitis herpetiformis

Striae distensae

Uticarial exanthems

Urticaria pigmentosa

Triple response of Lewis

All of these conditions/substances/contaminants produce everything from blisters to messages. I am sure you can find several more if you look. However, you will not find any paranormal explanation for it in science.

I would also be interested in people discussing peoples claims of being lifted and thrown by invisible entities and again what scientific explanation there could be for such things, again assuming honesty and integrity fo the person involved.

Well, it is a bit of a stretch of the imagination to assume honesty after such an unusual claim, but if the person truely believes this happened to them, then I can only suggest a loss of balance (physical or mental) as the probable cause. More data would be needed to be accurate.

If you need an example of this,there is an episode of ghost hunters at an armoury where a camera man ended up on the floor and although the footage is of poor quality it certainly looked like something or someone had threw him to the ground.

I believe he was hit in the chin by his sound recording equipment. I also believe it was a TV show made for entertainment purposes.

Again can we keep this based on the scientific explanations rather than its all tosh and thats that.

I am all for scientific explanations pills, but a considerable amount of this "phenomena" is faked. For the phenomena that isn't, it is usually misinterpretation of available data, and the mind filling in the blanks. It is amazing how many hoops the human mind will jump through to make the data fit.

[PILLSBURY]

Thanks Bob , I am going to look up some of your explanations as have never heard of them before,with regard to the camera man,yes he was hit on the chin by his camera bag but it seemed to move of its own accord which was what I was interested in in that particular case.
No doubt I will be back with some comments.

[fluffet]

On one of the conditions Bob mentioned , Urticaria...ive witnessed rapid appearances of what look like long red angry scratch marks from the slightest amount of pressure or the lightest stroke of a finger along the skin on a freinds body who suffers from this. There are different forms of it , pressure, light , allergic , heat and cold sensitive, and unfortunatly for my mate a form that seems to involve all of them ....also the marks can range from raised splotches that look like burns to red angry lines to imprints in red from anything that touches the skin such as a bra strap or waistband. What I would say is in my friends case and many others ive read about in researching it for her it can be highly unpredictable and tends to go in cycles ,...not a condition that lends itself well to performing on demand. But when its present in particularly the pressure sensitive form it mimics perfectly the kind of scratches and marks ive seen on some of these shows and could be generated by the slightest draw of a finger over the area.

The incidences ive seen of this though in shows like Ghost Adventures Ghost Hunters and of course MH tend to nearly always be in the form of what looks like a finger nail scratch , sometimes you can see little flakes of skin intermittently raised as they would be when someone draws a nail over skin with pressure.

What also is apparent is its usually a minute or so before the scratches are revealled ...if you scratch your own arm without breaking the skin it takes at least 40 to 50 seconds before the marks become even vaguely visible ....give it a minute or more and they appear darker and more visable to the eye what concerns me is that often when they pull up their clothing in some instances ive seen on these shows the marks are visable very quickly which might hint at them having been inflicted a little earlier than when theyve been shown to by their reaction.

But if we were to for the puposes of discussion assume the persons intergrity considerable force would have to be used to actually break the skin as has happened in some of these shows....if that force is available to an entity who really wished to inflict harm id wonder why they dont go for the eyes or somewhere more "delicate" ahem....it seems highly coincidental that its generally in a place that is reachable by the person themselves and isnt in highly sensitive or valued areas if ya catch my drift

[PILLSBURY]

Thanks Fluffet, my concern over these scratches has always been about them being self imposed, it recently happened on ghost hunters and I was suprised to see it on that show, MH have done it before and I knew it was a stunt but I dont expect that level of hysteria from Grant and Jason even if the show is about entertainment.

[bobdezon]

Feb 17, 2010 20:16:15 GMT fluffet said:

But if we were to for the puposes of discussion assume the persons intergrity considerable force would have to be used to actually break the skin as has happened in some of these shows....if that force is available to an entity who really wished to inflict harm id wonder why they dont go for the eyes or somewhere more "delicate" ahem....it seems highly coincidental that its generally in a place that is reachable by the person themselves and isnt in highly sensitive or valued areas if ya catch my drift

The old trick that has been used countless times, is to secrete a small piece of razor, or needle tip under a fingernail. There are not many places on a human body one can not reach themselves, but scratches are not the only self induced injury known.

One time on a TV program (worlds scariest ghosts caught on camera or some such crap) an investigator was found in a loft space with a noose around his neck attached to a nail. I almost pissed myself when they showed the camera stills, the amateur dramatics were breathtaking. All I can say is it was a good job I was not on that investigation, or he may have ended up with my foot up his arse for being a tit.

[PILLSBURY]

only May?

[bobdezon]

Feb 18, 2010 9:28:02 GMT PILLSBURY said:

only May?

It is glory hounds like that, that bring into disrepute the sterling work of more serious people. I believe it damages the entire reputation by association and the efforts of the serious investigators. What they do today for fame/sales/book deals/tours/daytime tv chat spots damages any future efforts, and diverts funding to the entertainment industry instead of the scientific insititutions.

[PILLSBURY]

I totally agree, nothing would please me more than a tv show that did the job properly or showed scientists with an open mind and a scientific brief investigating hauntings properly.At the end of the day we all want to know what is behind that small percentage of paranormal activity that science struggles to explain.

[The Legendary Barb]

I so agree, I would dearly love to be able to watch a show on the paranormal, listen to a psychic give a reading, watch table tipping ,glasses moving and all that goes with it. Unfortunately there has been so much jiggery pokery and faking going on, all in the name of fame , money and all that, that brings the charlatans to the limelight that if there be a genuine medium/psychic out there they are going to have a bloody hard time proving themselves.

[asdfg]

Feb 18, 2010 17:20:33 GMT The Legendary Barb said:

Unfortunately there has been so much jiggery pokery and faking going on, all in the name of fame , money and all that, that brings the charlatans to the limelight that if there be a genuine medium/psychic out there they are going to have a bloody hard time proving themselves.

If they were genuine, they'd have no problem passing properly controlled tests.

The idea of 'controls' in tests is to rule out the 'jiggery pokery' meaning that the test could only be passed by genuine ability. So properly controlled tests would be the ideal tool by which genuine psychics/mediums could prove themselves - you'd think the genuine ones would be lining up to take these tests wouldn't you?

It's illuminating to see the excuses 'genuine' psychics come up with to avoid testing yet still insist they are the real deal.