Michael Shermer: The pattern behind self-deception

[Amaris]

I don't think we have this on here Really enjoy listening to Michael Shermer, this is good!

www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_the_pattern_behind_self_deception.html

[tomroberts]

Interesting AND entertaining.

[bonzo2]

Its a belief same as any other - Mr. Shermer cannot prove or disprove his theories

[Amaris]

Jun 30, 2010 20:52:14 GMT bonzo2 said:

Its a belief same as any other - Mr. Shermer cannot prove or disprove his theories

[bonzo2]

Intelligent response:

[Amaris]

Jul 1, 2010 6:53:59 GMT bonzo2 said:

Intelligent response:

I thought my response to be totally on par with your post actually

[bonzo2]

Obviously not interested in intelligent debate.

[Amaris]

Jul 1, 2010 16:42:40 GMT bonzo2 said:

Obviously not interested in intelligent debate.

Oh I'm sorry, but anyone who believes this to be true,

Spiritualists believe that when the ego is involved, spirit tends not to use the channel or play games;) Spirit is capable of undermining or playing games with someone with less than honest motives.

is probably unlikely to give me an intelligent debate

[bonzo2]

Prove what I have stated is untrue?

[thing]

Spirit isn't capable of undermining or playing games with someone with less than honest motives.

[fluffet]

Spiritualists believe that when the ego is involved, spirit tends not to use the channel or play games;) Spirit is capable of undermining or playing games with someone with less than honest motives

The statement is very unclear and doesn't seem to make much sense Bonzo.
Ego, channels, games etc No one is likely going to enter into debate with you if they can't get to the basic root of what you or anyone for that matter is trying to say which you appear to want someone to "prove wrong".

If you are making a claim it might help to offer the evidence as to why you believe it to be correct rather than simply asking others to prove otherwise first without really giving them anything decipherable to go on.

[traceyg]

Jul 1, 2010 21:12:31 GMT bonzo2 said:

Prove what I have stated is untrue?

now that's just plain stupid....grrrrrr

[bonzo2]

Sorry, but this whole site is built on opinion, I have not come across one arguement to disprove my beliefs. Posters make inaccurate claims about the motives of mediums and sweeping statements about ''vulnerable, exploited'' people who are allegedly preyed upon. I have been a spiritualist for over 20 years and the majority of people who attend churches are not exploited or vulnerable.

[Amaris]

Jul 1, 2010 23:24:16 GMT bonzo2 said:

Sorry, but this whole site is built on opinion,

No, it is built on proof and logical reasoning.

I have not come across one arguement to disprove my beliefs.

Well you won't will you, you came here to argue for your belief not to listen to any reasoned arguments against that belief hence the lack of an intelligent, rational discussion on your part.

Posters make inaccurate claims about the motives of mediums and sweeping statements about ''vulnerable, exploited'' people who are allegedly preyed upon. I have been a spiritualist for over 20 years and the majority of people who attend churches are not exploited or vulnerable.

Which posts are these exactly? And as for the people attending these churches are they not being exploited in being told their dead relatives can communicate after death, a point which has never been proven conclusively. I'm sure many mediums do truly believe they are conveying a message but it's more likely luck or possibly a previous knowledge of those they read for however small which implants some information in their brain and they then believe later on it came to them from spirit.

[fluffet]

Why are you looking to have your beliefs proven wrong in the first place ?

Seems an unlikely passtime for someone who has already stated they have their own personal evidence and feels that is enough for them.

If they are such a minority of people who experience exploitation why are there so many reports in the press worldwide over many years of people who have been taken for ride by people who claim to be spiritualists ?

I understand you are refering purely to your experience of those who attend churches and are alluding to the idea that those who do con people are not "true" spiritualists or mediums and therefore should be excluded from blackening that term but there has been much evidence of less than admirable behaviour within the spiritualist churchs and the SNU over the years which tends to sully the idea that there is a tiny minority of people being exploited within.

Your experience has been a good one and thats great Bonzo but what of the people whos experience has been less than great of which there are more than a tiny few ?

Is that to be brushed over and ignored by people when considering things ?

Is their personal experience less evidential than your own ?

[thing]

I don't think anyone is going to get anywhere with this somehow............... (Could of course be precognition on my part....)

[bonzo2]

Ameris prove conclusively that mediums dont link with dead people and pass on commmunications to the living. I know you cannot so your entire hypthosis is built on your opinion without a shred of evidence to back it up. I have had survival proved to me over and over again in churches and I know have my own communications/experiences. Everyone I know involved gets the prove they desire, so back to my point that the majority of the posters here are ignorant of the truth and expressing their opionions. The majority of the mediums I know serve for love and light anmd make no money at all. In fact they are out of pocket due to the distances they travel, so why would they do this to con people?

[thing]

I'm sure no one is accusing the majority of SNU mediums of conning people, self deluded perhaps but I'm sure the majority mean well. My Aunty is 86, the last time I visited her she was convinced that I was the gasman. I guess I must be the gasman then eh? Unless I can prove otherwise of course..........

[bonzo2]

self deluded well I guess you guys are the experts on that subject;D

[Amaris]

Jul 2, 2010 14:18:01 GMT bonzo2 said:

Ameris prove conclusively that mediums dont link with dead people and pass on commmunications to the living. I know you cannot so your entire hypthosis is built on your opinion without a shred of evidence to back it up. I have had survival proved to me over and over again in churches and I know have my own communications/experiences. Everyone I know involved gets the prove they desire, so back to my point that the majority of the posters here are ignorant of the truth and expressing their opionions. The majority of the mediums I know serve for love and light anmd make no money at all. In fact they are out of pocket due to the distances they travel, so why would they do this to con people?

We had all this with Joshua who was a member here a while ago, he did the same as you are doing now. Your experiences are your own so no one else can take that as a proof. It is not up to me to prove people can't talk to dead people.
This will just go around in circles just as the threads with Joshua did.