The Absurdity of an Afterlife...

[bone]

Has anyone who believes in an afterlife ever really thought about what an eternity actually means?

Here is what James Joyce had to say on eternity:

"For ever! For all eternity! Not for a year or for an age but for ever. Try to imagine the awful meaning of this. You have often seen the sand on the seashore. How fine are its tiny grains! And how many of those tiny little grains go to make up the small handful which a child grasps in its play. Now imagine a mountain of that sand, a million miles high, reaching from the earth to the farthest heavens, and a million miles broad, extending to remotest space, and a million miles in thickness; and imagine such an enormous mass of countless particles of sand multiplied as often as there are leaves in the forest, drops of water in the mighty ocean, feathers on birds, scales on fish, hairs on animals, atoms in the vast expanse of the air: and imagine that at the end of every million years a little bird came to that mountain and carried away in its beak a tiny grain of that sand.

How many millions upon millions of centuries would pass before that bird had carried away even a square foot of that mountain, how many eons upon eons of ages before it had carried away all? Yet at the end of that immense stretch of time not even one instant of eternity could be said to have ended. At the end of all those billions and trillions of years eternity would have scarcely begun. And if that mountain rose again after it had been all carried away, and if the bird came again and carried it all away again grain by grain, and if it so rose and sank as many times as there are stars in the sky, atoms in the air, drops of water in the sea, leaves on the trees, feathers upon birds, scales upon fish, hairs upon animals, at the end of all those innumerable risings and sinkings of that immeasurably vast mountain not one single instant of eternity could be said to have ended; even then, at the end of such a period, after that eon of time the mere thought of which makes our very brain reel dizzily, eternity would scarcely have begun."

Does it ever cross the believers mind that the concept of eternity in a heaven is tantamount to having absolutely no free will, doomed to spend forever locked in a state of perpetual existence where you have no rest...isn't this what I would call hell?

Even if this isnt bad enough, think of how it would be to eventually know all, to have seen all and done all in eternity...what then? because you still have an eternity to exist...

I couldn't think of anything more disturbing!

[PILLSBURY]

Its all to easy to just repeat someone elses words on this . Perhaps you should research other opinions on what may happen after death, the Buddhists beliefs on how you work your way through the spiritual plains are fascinating. I can see the concept of ,after death you sit in heaven knowing all would be dull,but who says that at the point of death you suddenly become all knowing? Maybe when we die we gain greater insight into what we have been through,this combined with knowledge gained in previous lives helps us to slowly reach enlightenment, I think half of our problem in comprehending eternity is that our brain isnt capable of comprehending the enormity of it all.

[bone]

Its all to easy to just repeat someone elses words on this .

I quoted Joyce because he put it so much more eloquently than I ever could, but I did add my breif views under the quote.

Perhaps you should research other opinions on what may happen after death, the Buddhists beliefs on how you work your way through the spiritual plains are fascinating.

Thanks Pillsbury Ill take a look at that, I admit I dont know a thing about the buddhists version of the afterlife, I assumed that they were all the same more or less

I can see the concept of ,after death you sit in heaven knowing all would be dull,but who says that at the point of death you suddenly become all knowing?

Not me! I said " think of how it would be to eventually know all", do some people beleive that you gain all knowledge on death?

I think half of our problem in comprehending eternity is that our brain isnt capable of comprehending the enormity of it all.

I think you are right, after all our brain has to filter alot of information and being able to grasp the concept of eternity would be surplus to requirements as far as our survival and reproducing ourselves.

[bujin]

bone said:

I think half of our problem in comprehending eternity is that our brain isnt capable of comprehending the enormity of it all.

I think you are right, after all our brain has to filter alot of information and being able to grasp the concept of eternity would be surplus to requirements as far as our survival and reproducing ourselves.

It's not just "eternity" that we have trouble comprehending either. It's anything that's far outside the typical range we have to deal with.

We can easily think of a year, ten years, perhaps even a hundred years. Much more than that is incomprehensible though. I find it hard enough to contemplate how long ago it was since the time of Henry VIII (and that's only around 400 years!). It's 2000 years since the (alleged) time of Christ. That's around 80 generations of humans. Thinking about it approximately, that is, your

great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather

was around during that time. It's almost impossible to imagine!

But think that's hard? Then try imagining how many generations of your family there has been since homo sapiens has walked the earth - all 5000 generations! And even that is a minuscule amount compared to the age of the earth or the universe.

This is the main reason why some people don't accept evolution. They think that the eye (for example) would take too long to evolve - but we're not talking a couple of generations here. You could estimate that there have been 8 million (or more) generations of mammals since the dinosaurs died out. That's a LOT of time to generate the changes required to produce us.

So. If we can't imagine more than a few generations of our family, what hope have we got at imagining eternity?

[PILLSBURY]

I think the inquisitor said recently that you cant use a physical analogy to compare an ethereal concept ,now I didnt agree with that as our only way to try and work out our understanding is to use such analogies but one things for sure I feel bloody sorry for the bird taht Joyce talks about.

[skeptomatic]

I find the concept of eternity disturbing too. It's more disturbing than the idea of mortality. While I'm kinda sad that we all have to grow old and die, I find the idea of living forever almost horrible. Maybe popping in from time to time to see how things are going.... but living in an after-life forever? Yuck! Imagine still being around in 4 billion years when the sun turns into a red giant and then dies, consuming our planet in the process. Too too sad to watch! Nope - when the final bell tolls for me, it's lights-out. And given the alternative, I'll settle for mortality.

[mesmo]

The trouble is (IMO), you are using 'human' parameters of space/time to describe or evaluate something (possibly) way beyond human comprehension. In the afterlife perhaps there is 'no time'.

Bit like my pet guppies having a grasp of the fact that they will only live for a year (if lucky). A time spell of 12 months has no meaning whatsoever. Likewise, they dont need to know the chemical formula for water to live in it!

[Me]

bone said:

Has anyone who believes in an afterlife ever really thought about what an eternity actually means?

Man made the concept of time to organise their life..We see eternity based upon a day to day existence. Just doing the same thing day in,day out. No goals,no new interactions as such..the same old bods in the same old place. We also base what we view as personal eternity upon ourselves as individuals..what our interaction and meaning of existence is and what part we play within that time frame.

What if you took away that time frame,messed up that neat jigsaw a bit,became far less self orientated and understood the whole rather than the one?The we instead of I.
Add into that a very specific goal to be achieved...
Vast amounts of interaction's at varying levels,other experiences to continue and learn.
Kinda changes the concept of eternity doesn't it?

[skeptomatic]

Man made the concept of time to organise their life..We see eternity based upon a day to day existence. Just doing the same thing day in,day out. No goals,no new interactions as such..the same old bods in the same old place. We also base what we view as personal eternity upon ourselves as individuals..what our interaction and meaning of existence is and what part we play within that time frame.

What if you took away that time frame,messed up that neat jigsaw a bit,became far less self orientated and understood the whole rather than the one?The we instead of I.
Add into that a very specific goal to be achieved...
Vast amounts of interaction's at varying levels,other experiences to continue and learn.
Kinda changes the concept of eternity doesn't it?

So if it's all so fookin' marvellous, why don't we all just strangle ourselves as soon as we are old enough, and not bother with this tedious thing called 'life' that happens before the eternal party?

[Me]

skeptomatic said:

Man made the concept of time to organise their life..We see eternity based upon a day to day existence. Just doing the same thing day in,day out. No goals,no new interactions as such..the same old bods in the same old place. We also base what we view as personal eternity upon ourselves as individuals..what our interaction and meaning of existence is and what part we play within that time frame.

What if you took away that time frame,messed up that neat jigsaw a bit,became far less self orientated and understood the whole rather than the one?The we instead of I.
Add into that a very specific goal to be achieved...
Vast amounts of interaction's at varying levels,other experiences to continue and learn.
Kinda changes the concept of eternity doesn't it?

So if it's all so fookin' marvellous, why don't we all just strangle ourselves as soon as we are old enough, and not bother with this tedious thing called 'life' that happens before the eternal party?

lmao.... ;D who said it was marvellous?

[Me]

kendra said:

skeptomatic said:

So if it's all so fookin' marvellous, why don't we all just strangle ourselves as soon as we are old enough, and not bother with this tedious thing called 'life' that happens before the eternal party?

lmao.... ;D who said it was marvellous?

And by the way


The Fookin thing is grateing me,the way you take the piss out of an english accent ,Im not the only one who finds it offensive.Just letting ya know!

[lowrider]

Shall we all sing the " Shelia's Wheels" song.
The concept of the vastness of the universe V eternity.
Yet despite people struggle to grasp the space of space ,it exists.
A tad annoying that.

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

kendra said:

The Fookin thing is grateing me,the way you take the piss out of an english accent ,Im not the only one who finds it offensive.Just letting ya know!

Lo, said Kendra who takes the piss out of the English language everytime she opens her mouth, bloody cockneys

[Me]

lowrider said:

Shall we all sing the " Shelia's Wheels" song.
The concept of the vastness of the universe V eternity.
Yet despite people struggle to grasp the space of space ,it exists.
A tad annoying that.

Isnt it

[Me]

admin said:

kendra said:

The Fookin thing is grateing me,the way you take the piss out of an english accent ,Im not the only one who finds it offensive.Just letting ya know!

Lo, said Kendra who takes the piss out of the English language everytime she opens her mouth, bloody cockneys

If you say so dear

Seriously Jon,it is pigging quite afew peeps on here off..

[Mr. Jon Donnis]

I don't Adam and Eve it Kendra, get yer Bacons up the Apples and Pears cause me Jam Jar's Cream Crackered.

[Me]

admin said:

I don't Adam and Eve it Kendra, get yer Bacons up the Apples and Pears cause me Jam Jar's Cream Crackered.

Yes dear..very clever

[PILLSBURY]

admin said:

I don't Adam and Eve it Kendra, get yer Bacons up the Apples and Pears cause me Jam Jar's Cream Crackered.

To quote my heroes Asterix and Obelix

"I dont know,its all greek to me"!!!!!!

[skeptomatic]

You bloomin' Poms are so sensitive. You introduce slavery, colonise many distant lands and kill off or ruin so many indigenous civilisations, and then you get upset when someone says 'fook'.

When I came to England, my Australian accent was mimicked all the time. I say cahhhhhh and Bahhhhhhh (car and bar) apparently.

Vive le difference.

[Me]

When I came to England, my Australian accent was mimicked all the time. I say cahhhhhh and Bahhhhhhh (car and bar) apparently.

Personally I would not imitate a tourists accent, that would be down right rude and offensive in my books.For someone to be in a foreign country it can be quite an isolating experience as it is.I had this done to me in New York on and off throughout my stay there..or asked to keep repeating certain words and sentences, I was not amused.

You introduce slavery, colonise many distant lands and kill off or ruin so many indigenous civilisations, and then you get upset when someone says 'fook'.

Its called world domination,I wouldnt knock it lassie..you probably wouldnt be here now if we hadnt...

hmmm thats a thought ah well,we are allowed to mess up now and again