You think our questioning and continual search for the truth is for us? Our kids already have the disorder and other disabilities, an answer to what has happened to our kids and why we have a right to know,but who do you think it will really benefit in the long run when hopefully the answer is found rather than just being accepted as one of those things that happen. Do you think it will benefit us in the long run or soon to be parents like yourself?
The continuous rehash of the MMR myth is not helping what you seek or more importantly helping prospective parents make the right choice. Ultimately children are now catching disease they shouldn't be because of scaremongering.
I haven't typed tons of websites on here,so get your facts straight first mate!
Correct but you are repeating the same mantra that they do e.g. MMR is linked to Autism and to top it off suggesting vaccines harm/kill children!!!!
How the hell am I sowing any confusion into anything or anyone,it is your choice what you do,it is your choice to decide against or for what you have read/heard/seen.
Of course it is peoples choice but they should receive the appropriate information and not have their choice muddied with myth.
OK put it this way,going by what my health visitor told me when I shared my concerns with her regarding the MMR,she told me that if I was to be a responsible parent I should allow my son the vaccination. And that it was a million to one chance that anything could go wrong or the vaccine could affect my son.
I am sorry you seem a little confused. I am sure your health visitor was referring to an adverse reaction not autism. MMR and autism are not linked.
...but we just dont know the hell what!
I suggest you should be more open minded and consider other possibilities. There is no proof MMR is linked to autism (fact), therefore perhaps you should consider other reasons.
Besides nothing I have said on here I wouldn't have a problem saying to your face or anyone elses......... I dont need a screen to state my opinion or stand up for something I believe in or am against.
Me too! I am a great advocate in speaking out against general idiocy and ignorance. I love a soap box me.
I would have thought the bit about the medical profession patting themselves on the back for the decline would have made it obvious really
I should blimmin well hope they got a pat on the back. Smallpox eradication should be lauded as an example of WHO combating an awful disease that caused so much death, blindness and disfigurement.
But the whole point is....it was in decline prior to the immunisations
OK guys, I've relocated & my (HF autistic) son is up to date with all required shots. However, South Carolina is recommending that he receives 2 more. 1 booster for chicken pox (no problem there) & multi shot consisting of 5-8 vaccinations in one dose.
I know themasol is removed, but I do have a(n irrational???) fear that numerous shots at one time could set him back and the progress he has made so far. So please, Kendra & Jigsaw give me facts on both sides on this issue. (Repost it if necessary)
Also, early intervention is too vital to wait for studies to be concluded on what therapy statically works, but parents have to use common sense when trying any method (new or old) on their child. What works for one child might not work for another. What works right now might not work in two weeks. So consider the pros and cons of each therapy before applying it to an autistic child.
I have my son on no sugar during school times to lessen stemming, deep pressure massage every week to get him more relaxed (less of an insomniac), & occasionally coffee during important tests to help with his concentration (instead of Ritalin, etc). This works for him. There is no study to confirm this, only teachers that noticed the difference.
Even though you didn't ask me, I'm going to toss my two cents in here.
There is not one bit of proof that vaccines cause or trigger autism.
What vaccine is 5-8 in one dose? I'm looking at the necessary vaccines by age and there isn't one that is more than three doses (the DTaP and the MMR). This is on both the state's vaccine site and the CDC's site. Also, how old is your son?
OK guys, I've relocated & my (HF autistic) son is up to date with all required shots. However, South Carolina is recommending that he receives 2 more. 1 booster for chicken pox (no problem there) & multi shot consisting of 5-8 vaccinations in one dose.
I know themasol is removed, but I do have a(n irrational???) fear that numerous shots at one time could set him back and the progress he has made so far. So please, Kendra & Jigsaw give me facts on both sides on this issue. (Repost it if necessary)
Also, early intervention is too vital to wait for studies to be concluded on what therapy statically works, but parents have to use common sense when trying any method (new or old) on their child. What works for one child might not work for another. What works right now might not work in two weeks. So consider the pros and cons of each therapy before applying it to an autistic child.
I have my son on no sugar during school times to lessen stemming, deep pressure massage every week to get him more relaxed (less of an insomniac), & occasionally coffee during important tests to help with his concentration (instead of Ritalin, etc). This works for him. There is no study to confirm this, only teachers that noticed the difference.
Roe
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There is not one bit of proof that vaccines cause or trigger autism
Nope I don't believe that the MMR etc causes Autism,but on a genetic level it is possible that a trigger can occur and react to a dormant chromosome. There is no 100% that the MMR does not do this,nor that is does, but it is a possibility. Until the science bods get their fingers out and all within the medical community can agree there will not be 100% proof either way. Of course we all have our own opinions on this and I respect that,but yet again it boils down to proof being obtained that has no doubts,no flaws and has been absolutely proved beyond all doubt. At the end of the day as a parent who has a child with Autism or any other disability is deal with the aftermath,even if you do not truly know what has caused/trigged it in the first place. I really do not believe nor does my GP for that matter believe it will do my son any harm to go without the chemical additives etc within his diet,infact we all benefit from this in my household.
Until there is proof either way,and I mean absolute proof , all that any parent can do regarding vaccinations is do what they feel is in the best interest of their child.
There is not one bit of proof that vaccines cause or trigger autism
Nope I don't believe that the MMR etc causes Autism
Then why do you go on about 3-in-one vaccines etc.?
You clearly do believe that the MMR vaccine causes or triggers autism because you're always promoting or advocating single vaccines instead (!)
Can you provide any scientific, evidence-based (i.e. not your personal opinion) information that shows that single vaccines are either safer or more effective than the triple jab?
I look forward to seeing the evidence.
Edit: changed 'that' to 'than' - second last paragraph.
I'm still not quite understanding this part of your discussion.
That might be because your view was tainted by Kendra's 'anti-Jigsaw' rant to begin with and it affected how you interpreted everything I said after that.
It may have also contributed to your childish insults as well.
If you had bothered to engage me properly in debate you'd actually find that I agree with the 'healthy eating' perspective; although I don't think there's anything wrong with GM crops or that there's anything better about so-called 'organic' produce.
My intention was actually positive - i.e. how can we look at the scientific research into this area and how, by casting a skeptical eye over it, can we benefit from it.
All it turned out to be was that we learned how not to approach a subject and why pig-headed attitudes can actually harm the very people who could benefit from adopting a skeptical attitude. Skepticism being a method of acquiring knowledge (!)
And yes, some of my replies to you have been extremely childish and out of bounds. I became extremely frustrated with your denseness on the subject, and with your strange habit of trying to insult me by saying I wasn't a true skeptic. On some subjects I am not a skeptic, and I will freely admit that. I saw my son improve, as did his teachers and therapist, when I started on better foods, and I saw him spit on his father and threaten to kill him after a Pop Tart. That right there told me I was doing the right thing for him.
If you had been telling me I needed to be skeptical about vaccines, I would have agreed with you (as I believe I had), but you continually posted that I and all true skeptics should always wait for reports before taking chemicals out of our child's life.
The point you always missed with my posts was that doctors and other specialists have already done studies, and continue to do more, on diet and ADHD/autism. They have found that taking certain items out of the diet does help alleviate symptoms. This is not radical eating, either, but just giving the kids fresher foods, as well as trying exclusion of aspartme and gluten (not all children or adults are sensitive to those, though). With food, though, it's all trial and error for each of us, and that is a huge hurdle with food studies. I happen to be sensitive to eggs, and I adore eating them. Four times out of five, I will spend hours doubled over in pain, and it did not take studies to tell me I have to stop eating eggs.
I've always discussed treatment with my son's pediatrician, psychiatrist, and therapists before trying anything new. I do not go to quacks. I research topics until my eyes ache, then I discuss said topics with his doctors. I'm very practical when it comes to parenting, and I stay away from any site that claims conspiracy and/or refuses to give actual proof from reputable sources. Please refer to an earlier post where I gave links by said studies being done by Uni of Texas and CDC.
What I should have said was that I am skeptical about any new treatments, but that I didn't need specific studies to tell me we needed to eat better regardless of my son's disorder. I also rather enjoy using Castile soap, vinegar, and Borax for cleaning.
The most heartbreaking part of this whole discussion is the pain we parents feel when our child starts showing symptoms and we feel helpless and guilty. I would still rather have my AS son with me than have him dead because I refused him vaccines.
A lot of rambling. I'm very tired today, and I hope that made sense. My argument with you had nothing to do with your continual insults aimed at Kendra. I was and am angry on how you treated me on the subject of daring to question my decision as a parent to feed my child a healthier diet. I suppose you would have had a better argument if I was suggesting cupping or chelation therapy, as they had been soundly tossed as quackery, but saying things like I put my child in danger by following fads was over the top. Since when is baking homemade bread or cookies a fad?
I'm still not quite understanding this part of your discussion.
That might be because your view was tainted by Kendra's 'anti-Jigsaw' rant to begin with and it affected how you interpreted everything I said after that.
It may have also contributed to your childish insults as well.
If you had bothered to engage me properly in debate you'd actually find that I agree with the 'healthy eating' perspective; although I don't think there's anything wrong with GM crops or that there's anything better about so-called 'organic' produce.
My intention was actually positive - i.e. how can we look at the scientific research into this area and how, by casting a skeptical eye over it, can we benefit from it.
All it turned out to be was that we learned how not to approach a subject and why pig-headed attitudes can actually harm the very people who could benefit from adopting a skeptical attitude. Skepticism being a method of acquiring knowledge (!)
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Hmmmmm.... I have to look. I'm in Louisiana doing the final packing, but when I get to SC I'll let you know. I could be wrong about the number but the info sheet had several types listed. It might be he has the ones that are required???
BTW Thank for your 2 cents My son is 11.
I remember coming across a successful legal case concerning vaccines and autism. I did not mention it earlier because lack of time and resources to properly cite or quote from it. From memory, I believe the case was based on a claim that the vaccine aggravated a previous condition that resulted in the diagnosis of of autism. I really need to search that case, but it will have to wait till I'm back in South Carolina.
Even though you didn't ask me, I'm going to toss my two cents in here.
There is not one bit of proof that vaccines cause or trigger autism.
What vaccine is 5-8 in one dose? I'm looking at the necessary vaccines by age and there isn't one that is more than three doses (the DTaP and the MMR). This is on both the state's vaccine site and the CDC's site. Also, how old is your son?
OK guys, I've relocated & my (HF autistic) son is up to date with all required shots. However, South Carolina is recommending that he receives 2 more. 1 booster for chicken pox (no problem there) & multi shot consisting of 5-8 vaccinations in one dose.
I know themasol is removed, but I do have a(n irrational???) fear that numerous shots at one time could set him back and the progress he has made so far. So please, Kendra & Jigsaw give me facts on both sides on this issue. (Repost it if necessary)
Also, early intervention is too vital to wait for studies to be concluded on what therapy statically works, but parents have to use common sense when trying any method (new or old) on their child. What works for one child might not work for another. What works right now might not work in two weeks. So consider the pros and cons of each therapy before applying it to an autistic child.
I have my son on no sugar during school times to lessen stemming, deep pressure massage every week to get him more relaxed (less of an insomniac), & occasionally coffee during important tests to help with his concentration (instead of Ritalin, etc). This works for him. There is no study to confirm this, only teachers that noticed the difference.
There is not one bit of proof that vaccines cause or trigger autism
Nope I don't believe that the MMR etc causes Autism,but on a genetic level it is possible that a trigger can occur and react to a dormant chromosome. There is no 100% that the MMR does not do this,nor that is does, but it is a possibility. Until the science bods get their fingers out and all within the medical community can agree there will not be 100% proof either way. Of course we all have our own opinions on this and I respect that,but yet again it boils down to proof being obtained that has no doubts,no flaws and has been absolutely proved beyond all doubt. At the end of the day as a parent who has a child with Autism or any other disability is deal with the aftermath,even if you do not truly know what has caused/trigged it in the first place. I really do not believe nor does my GP for that matter believe it will do my son any harm to go without the chemical additives etc within his diet,infact we all benefit from this in my household.
Until there is proof either way,and I mean absolute proof , all that any parent can do regarding vaccinations is do what they feel is in the best interest of their child.
Kendra if you were a politician, you would be called out for flip-flopping back & forth (then back again). Frankly, I respect the fact that you have an opinion on the subject (changing or otherwise); I just wish you would convey that opinion with less drama.
Also there will never be an absolute proof on any subject. Life is too complex, and what can affect one person may not affect another.
More importantly, do you have any literature, links or citations that you would share with me on the issue on your earlier point that multiple vaccines at one time could cause or aggravate the conditions of autism?
Honestly, you come across as being abrasive or even disparaging when you disagree with someone. That could be a the reason why some people respond in a defensive or emotional manner while overlooking your intellectual insights.
I should blimmin well hope they got a pat on the back. Smallpox eradication should be lauded as an example of WHO combating an awful disease that caused so much death, blindness and disfigurement.
But the whole point is....it was in decline prior to the immunisations
Kendra, I am sure this is correct but the vaccine was necessary globally and was a far more efficient way of eradicating smallpox than attempting to institute hygiene practices in far corners of the globe. This and the polio vaccine are great examples of man's triumph over disease.
I have my son on no sugar during school times to lessen stemming, deep pressure massage every week to get him more relaxed (less of an insomniac), & occasionally coffee during important tests to help with his concentration (instead of Ritalin, etc). This works for him. There is no study to confirm this, only teachers that noticed the difference.
Roe
Hi Roe Here in the UK another drug was and is still used today, it is similar to Ritalin but without the side effects, it is a slow release drug which works for up to 16 hours, this enables the child to concentrate not only at school but calms them at home, this is called "Concerta" see link www.concerta.net/pages/index.jsp, then in the evening another tablet is introduced to help the child sleep this is called "Clonidine" www.drugs.com/mtm/clonidine.html the clonidine is also used to help reduce the effects of the Concerta thus helping the child relax and go to sleep. These drugs don't help every child with ADHD but is a useful drug when circumstances become dire enough and the child is no longer in control. I have seen the effects work tremendously in children and adults.
Another thing to use if the child is restless is "Night Time Milk" this is a milk where by the cows are milked in the night giving it a high dose of Melatonin this really works making the child sleep naturally. Melatonin can be prescribed by a GP/Medic this is in a capsule form.
I will answer the rest of your post later as need to pop out but wanted to answer this very relevant part of your post
I am sorry you seem a little confused. I am sure your health visitor was referring to an adverse reaction not autism. MMR and autism are not linked
. Naturally I asked her are there any adverse reactions or any problems that are linked to the MMR,she said and I quote"Apart from a high temperatures,nausea and the usual symptoms there shouldn't be any real harmful affects. Oh there is talk about Autism linked to the MMR but that hasn't been proved yet and anyway that would be a million to one chance of anything like that happening to your son"
Oh how wrong she was
p.s This was after she gave me the lecture that "if I wanted to be a good and responsible parent I should have my son vaccinated" My first and only child of course I wanted to be a good and responsible parent,my mum had passed on a few years earlier, my gran grew up with the mindset that in her day they didnt need vaccinations so she was no good to ask advice from...I had no one else to get advice from but the medical community regarding my sons health. I have hated myself since that day and every day after that for being swayed by that
I'm still not quite understanding this part of your discussion.
That might be because your view was tainted by Kendra's 'anti-Jigsaw' rant to begin with and it affected how you interpreted everything I said after that.
You may find that has to do with your crappy attitude Jigsaw and tha fact that you have no experience, and your vast knowledge of this subject boils down to studying just one module on this subject ,copying the stuff you find online and paste links from the web ,thought about that being an element here have you? Oh no of course not
Nope I don't believe that the MMR etc causes Autism
Then why do you go on about 3-in-one vaccines etc.?
You clearly do believe that the MMR vaccine causes or triggers autism because you're always promoting or advocating single vaccines instead (!)
Can you provide any scientific, evidence-based (i.e. not your personal opinion) information that shows that single vaccines are either safer or more effective than the triple jab?
I look forward to seeing the evidence.
Edit: changed 'that' to 'than' - second last paragraph.
Because I believe they can trigger this disorder and as for evidence Jigsaw,the fact of the matter is any evidence I provide will be flawed by other research etc done,on that basis my evidence is as worthless as yours Jigsaw!
Because I believe they can trigger this disorder and as for evidence Jigsaw,the fact of the matter is any evidence I provide will be flawed by other research etc done,on that basis my evidence is as worthless as yours Jigsaw!
Because I believe they can trigger this disorder and as for evidence Jigsaw,the fact of the matter is any evidence I provide will be flawed by other research etc done,on that basis my evidence is as worthless as yours Jigsaw!
Hi Roe Here in the UK another drug was and is still used today, it is similar to Ritalin but without the side effects, it is a slow release drug which works for up to 16 hours, this enables the child to concentrate not only at school but calms them at home, this is called "Concerta" see link www.concerta.net/pages/index.jsp, then in the evening another tablet is introduced to help the child sleep this is called "Clonidine" www.drugs.com/mtm/clonidine.html the clonidine is also used to help reduce the effects of the Concerta thus helping the child relax and go to sleep. These drugs don't help every child with ADHD but is a useful drug when circumstances become dire enough and the child is no longer in control. I have seen the effects work tremendously in children and adults.
Another thing to use if the child is restless is "Night Time Milk" this is a milk where by the cows are milked in the night giving it a high dose of Melatonin this really works making the child sleep naturally. Melatonin can be prescribed by a GP/Medic this is in a capsule form.
I think we have Concerta in the states. I had tried Jake on two different drugs when he was first diagnosed with hideous results. I had tried omega 3's for a while. At first it worked, but after a couple of weeks later it seems to produce no discerning results.
It is becoming the point where we may have to explore prescription drugs to help with concentration, but I want to wait till next school year to decide.
I have never heard of Night Time Milk before. It sounds interesting. I have to see where if there is a local health food store near my new location.
