That is the kind of attitude Jon, That still keeps organisations like The Flat Earth Society going. Closed minds will never open doors to the future. We cannot ignore believers,because those who believe are the future,history has always shown this. I am afraid,no offence meant,but i think most,hard nosed skeptics are dorks. I would like to be politer,but i say as i feel.
That is the kind of attitude Jon, That still keeps organisations like The Flat Earth Society going. Closed minds will never open doors to the future. We cannot ignore believers,because those who believe are the future,history has always shown this. I am afraid,no offence meant,but i think most,hard nosed skeptics are dorks. I would like to be politer,but i say as i feel.
I agree to a degree,not quite as a blanket coverage as that. I have said that some sceptics never seem to wonder and take science which is always evolving as gospel. Much of what we accept today as normal would be looked at as witchcraft a few decades ago. I only wish that sceptics could accept the principle that as of yet science has not been able to develop a process that shows how mediumship works but that is not to say it won't in the future. Not a cop out,if people simply accepted what is, we would never wonder what if.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 15:01:31 GMT
lodx said:
That is the kind of attitude Jon, That still keeps organisations like The Flat Earth Society going. Closed minds will never open doors to the future. We cannot ignore believers,because those who believe are the future,history has always shown this. I am afraid,no offence meant,but i think most,hard nosed skeptics are dorks. I would like to be politer,but i say as i feel.
But that attitude of mine comes from FACTS, it comes from the FACT that NO psychic in history has ever been ableto back up their claim of
"To provide proof of survival"
Not a single one.
Give me one good reason why i shouldnt have that attitude?
I search and search for a real psychic who can change my mind, but all i find are fakes and frauds.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 15:06:03 GMT
I have said that some sceptics never seem to wonder and take science which is always evolving as gospel.
I do not. I never blindly accept things, science is always changing its mind on some things, but there is at least discussion with actual evidence. If it is climate change, yes i disagree with a lot of the claims of global warming, but at least there is no doubt climate exists.
Much of what we accept today as normal would be looked at as witchcraft a few decades ago.
Perhaps, but that is because of technology and science, and NOT because of psychics.
I only wish that sceptics could accept the principle that as of yet science has not been able to develop a process that shows how mediumship works but that is not to say it won't in the future. Not a cop out,if people simply accepted what is, we would never wonder what if.
But science HAS shown exactly how frauds can appear psychic, how deluded people can believe they are psychic.
How can i as a sceptic accept a principle that says science has not yet been able to show how mediumship works, when thereis NO evidence it works at all.
EVERYTHING any psychic or medium claims to be able to do can be 100% replicated by a none psychic, so you would have to be a fool to believe that one person is doing it with real magic and the other with trickery.
Show me something science cant explain, and i will accept that science needs to evolve to explain it. But do not just make comments which have no basis in fact at all.
You claim to be a medium Paul, yet i claim you are deluded. Show me proof that you are not deluded, because i cannot prove a negative, only you a positive,
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
How can i as a sceptic accept a principle that says science has not yet been able to show how mediumship works, when thereis NO evidence it works at all.
You don't have to accept it,but you can say it may work.
Post by Little Claire on Oct 12, 2006 15:37:06 GMT
I don't believe in anything really. Well not spiritual anyway. I belive that human beings are a freak of physics. In an immense universe spanning millions and billions of years the possibilities for existence are almost inevitable. In the great scheme of things we've been around for the blink of an eye and religion has been around for a a small fraction of that.
People believe so that they can put some meaning into life, but for me life is nothing more than a random freak of time and space.
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2006 15:37:52 GMT by Little Claire
Just a bit about blind belief,as believers are always accused of it.
Blind Belief can be dangerous,but it really depends on what you blindly believe in. If you blindly believe you can fly,then thats kinda worrying lol I believe in the afterlife,I have no "concrete" proof,but I cannot logically belive all mediums/psychics are deluded. Remember it only takes one medium to be in contact with the dead for real etc and therefore the afterlife exists.Even if all the others are fakes. Though sceptics tend to dismiss evidence from real people they tend towards believing the "world" created by scientists. This is my big worry about sceptics,they seem to lack trust in their fellow man/woman. Anyway I am straying from the point. Blind belief or True believer firstly is NOT a recognised syndrome,as many sceptics believe,a medical man would laugh that one out of the office,so that puts that one to bed. Whether to blindly believe equates with not being willing to change ones viewpoint.I don't know. I am always willing to switch viewpoints,if good reasoned argument is presented. But If I wish to believe in an afterlife,I will continue to do so until evidence that arrives on the scene prooves otherwise. So am I a blind believer? To me the term is another throwaway term which is used (mainly by the hard nosed sceptics/cynics,rather than the intelligent ones) to belittle belief. For one,blind belief is a contradiction in terms and very bad english.(belief cannot be blind,belief is psychological not actual) If I state that i believe the knock that i heard in the haunted house is a ghost and will not concede to any evidence that shows otherwise. Then in my opinion I am just deluded and obstinate,If my beliefs make me this way,then i am probably obsessed with them.To a dangerous extent perhaps. Blind belief is not possible,as everyone has psychological reasons for believing,good or bad.So therefore it is not blind. Maybe I am being pedantic,but It helps,in my opinion to define a phrase and understand it before it is used.Otherwise,with phrases like "blind belief" you just set yourself up for the sceptics to knock you down. I would never coin the phrase "blind sceptism" as it would be equally meaningless.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 16:16:04 GMT
If you blindly believe you can fly,then thats kinda worrying lol
Many spiritualists have this belief, including DD Home.
I believe in the afterlife,I have no "concrete" proof,but I cannot logically belive all mediums/psychics are deluded.
But why do you need to make the connection between belief in an afterlife and mediums?
Surely belief purely on faith there is a god etc is ok, i have no problem with that, its when mediums say they can prove it.
Remember it only takes one medium to be in contact with the dead for real etc and therefore the afterlife exists.Even if all the others are fakes.
Yes it does only take one, but as of October 2006, there are none. Same as there are no White Crows, no Loch Ness Monster, No Bigfoot, No Aliens, and no Intelligent Derek Acorah fan.
I agree that it only takes one, and until there is one, it is purely blind belief in something that is as ridiculous as Nessie flying past my window smoking a cigar.
This is my big worry about sceptics,they seem to lack trust in their fellow man/woman.
No we dont. We lack trust in people who make claims they simply cannot back up.
If someone said that they had a cure for cancer, and your mother was dying from cancer, yet when you ask for that cure, they cant give it you, wouldnt you be a tad pissed off? Wouldnt you think they were deluded?
It wouldnt stop your belief that there is a cure out there, and it is much more likely that it will be a scientist that finds it instead of some psychic healer
Blind belief or True believer firstly is NOT a recognised syndrome,as many sceptics believe,a medical man would laugh that one out of the office,so that puts that one to bed.
True Believer Syndrome was coined by Lemar Keene. I do not think thereis any doubt that it exists though, in different forms, I would say that any intelligent scientist would accept a variation on it
Whether to blindly believe equates with not being willing to change ones viewpoint.I don't know.
Yes it does, sceptics change their viewpoints when presented with evidence, believers ignore the evidence and carry on believing. The story of Lemar Keene is a good example of this, and more modern Derek Acorah is another good example. Despite how many times he has been exposed people still believe in him blindly.
I am always willing to switch viewpoints,if good reasoned argument is presented.
And that is a good thing, but the viewpoint you currently hold is one that has come from blind belief, not proof
But If I wish to believe in an afterlife,I will continue to do so until evidence that arrives on the scene prooves otherwise.
But there will never be evidence that proves there is no afterlife. And i couldnt care less if you believe in an afterlife or not, that is your right of course.
But if that belief is created because of a psychic conning someone then i have issue with that.
So am I a blind believer? To me the term is another throwaway term which is used (mainly by the hard nosed sceptics/cynics,rather than the intelligent ones) to belittle belief.
Faith is blind belief, i have no problem with blind belief if it is built on purely faith. It is when a psychic gets involved to con the person which is what bothers me
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
That is the kind of attitude Jon, That still keeps organisations like The Flat Earth Society going. Closed minds will never open doors to the future. We cannot ignore believers,because those who believe are the future,history has always shown this. I am afraid,no offence meant,but i think most,hard nosed skeptics are dorks. I would like to be politer,but i say as i feel.
I WAS a true believer. After a childhood and early adulthood full of religious nonsense and a slow journey out of it, I realised I was WRONG. My mind was closed to the truth by religion and superstition. Now it is closed against any kind of woo and will remain so until the woo is proved genuine and/or true. And I know it will be a cold day in non-existent hell before any woo is ever proven to be real!!!
That is the kind of attitude Jon, That still keeps organisations like The Flat Earth Society going. Closed minds will never open doors to the future. We cannot ignore believers,because those who believe are the future,history has always shown this. I am afraid,no offence meant,but i think most,hard nosed skeptics are dorks. I would like to be politer,but i say as i feel.
I WAS a true believer. After a childhood and early adulthood full of religious nonsense and a slow journey out of it, I realised I was WRONG. My mind was closed to the truth by religion and superstition. Now it is closed against any kind of woo and will remain so until the woo is proved genuine and/or true. And I know it will be a cold day in non-existent hell before any woo is ever proven to be real!!!
So one extreme to the other. A nice balanced attitude. If your childhood was screwed by religion fine but to stay as you have admitted "closed minded" means i fail to see the point of myself or any other medium wasting our time talking to you. You do not wish to debate you simply want for the world to see it your way or no way. Now i know what i thought is correct. For some reason you have a hatred of mediums and or psychics who are all devil worshipping baby eaters. What a way to spend your life feeling. l
So one extreme to the other. A nice balanced attitude. If your childhood was screwed by religion fine but to stay as you have admitted "closed minded" means i fail to see the point of myself or any other medium wasting our time talking to you. You do not wish to debate you simply want for the world to see it your way or no way. Now i know what i thought is correct. For some reason you have a hatred of mediums and or psychics who are all devil worshipping baby eaters. What a way to spend your life feeling. l
Hear,Hear Mate, Skeptomatic,please do not talk to me on this forum if you just wish to spout your own private dogma. I have time for those who can argue a point,not those who will never budge from their small minded view of the world. If you hate mediums,et al,so much. Have the balls to do something about it,go out and investigate their methods. Rather than spouting your awful,puerile, rhetoric on an intelligent forum.
