|
|
Post by lodx on Oct 12, 2006 21:24:32 GMT
Those who think they know of all that exists usually exist in their own imaginary world.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 21:52:52 GMT
We are not Randi disciples at all. And it is an ignorant comments to call us so. Should i start calling you an Acorahlyte? Come on Jon don't dish if you can't take. The term Woo,Woo has been bandied around enough on here. Suck the lip in. Woo is a term of affection, just like Noob |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 21:53:28 GMT
And you know this 100% because? I never said i know it 100%, i just sai dthat there is no proof of any of those things existing, so i do not believe in them |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 12, 2006 21:53:58 GMT
For some reason you have a hatred of mediums and or psychics who are all devil worshipping baby eaters. Thats the pagans!! |
|
|
|
Post by skeptomatic on Oct 12, 2006 23:45:15 GMT
For a start, I have been learning about mediums and psychics methods. Recently (for example) I bought and read from cover to cover an excellent book about cold reading by Ian Rowland and I have learned a lot by watching programmes purporting to contain evidence of the paranormal and programmes debunking the paranormal. I have been to psychics and always been disappointed - even by those who others found to be 'amazingly accurate'. And I have gotten a lot out of contributing to forums such as this, and reading what others have to say, and discussing the subject with my friends; some of who are true believers in the paranormal. In fact, amongst my friends I think I am the only atheist/skeptic.
And I don't hate mediums and psychics - I feel sorry for them, though their behaviour annoys me greatly. They are just frail human beings like the rest of us, except unfortunately they are bereft either of conscience or reality, which means I am glad I am not like them, though I hope they eventually take the right medication and/or develop a sense of social justice. The successful ones are rolling in wealth... but I would rather be poor than con my way into money as they do.
My view of the world is not narrow or closed minded. But then, that's the age old accusation that believers throw at skeptics. Like James Randi, for whom I happen to have admiration, if something paranormal could be actually proven under proper test conditions, I would reconsider my views. Until then, pardon me if I don't believe.
|
|
|
|
Post by mook on Oct 13, 2006 7:05:23 GMT
I have worked with a lot of mediums/psychics over the years being in a paranormal group and i have found that they get quite offended when you say that you are not spiritual, i have my own reasons for doing what i do and i usually find myself going off and doing my own thing rather than listening to what they have to say and i dont think thats a bad thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 13, 2006 8:50:01 GMT
I listen to every word a medium says on an investigation, andthen i explain to them how they have come up with what they have and how it is not real.
That is the point of a sceptic
|
|
|
|
Post by lowrider on Oct 13, 2006 9:54:11 GMT
I listen to every word a medium says on an investigation, andthen i explain to them how they have come up with what they have and how it is not real. That is the point of a sceptic In your opinion Jon . You explain how they MAY have come up with whatever. You cannot prove that,it is simply a conclusion that you have come to based of the evidence as you see it,guess what not everyone sees it your way.  But if they don't then you assume,at least i deduce from your posts on here,they are deluded or have blind faith.  Apparently ignoring the point that you expect people to have blind faith in you and your theories. Even if that theories is,"a lucky guess". Which applies to anything you cannot explain.  |
|
|
|
Post by lowrider on Oct 13, 2006 10:02:58 GMT
Wow,so you read books and look at programs that confirm your own opinions You go girl that is balanced and unbiased research.  You see you just can't help yourself can you. Every time you show your true colours and have to make huge unsupported assumptions about mediums and insult them. As to career choices,we have been there  We have already established that you seem to be only carrying out research that will confirm your views and and admiration of Randi is straight along that path. As to waiting for proof to be found,look at other places then cold reading books,prove the psychic is faked shows and James Randi cos you will not find it there. What you will find is people such as yourself,which is comforting i know but not educational. |
|
|
|
Post by Kim on Oct 13, 2006 10:16:21 GMT
You can't explain everything away Jon with a rational answer
There are some things that happen, that no one can explain.
I think you have become very closed minded, science doesn't have all the answers.
People will always have their beliefs/faiths and your brick walled opinions will not change that.
What has happened to you for you to be so sceptical about eveything?
|
|
|
|
Post by nic on Oct 13, 2006 10:18:25 GMT
So... Spiritualism? "A manipulative form of berevement counselling given by an egotistic powered so called medium under the umberella of religion" |
|
|
|
Post by calamitykate on Oct 13, 2006 10:27:36 GMT
Sceptics do not contest this. All they are saying is, just because something is unexplained YET, does not mean it had a paranormal cause.
Believers take the other path; if something happens they cannot explain, they take this MASSIVE leap and assume that it is caused by the paranormal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kim on Oct 13, 2006 10:31:22 GMT
So... Spiritualism? "A manipulative form of berevement counselling given by an egotistic powered so called medium under the umberella of religion" Is this your opinion? |
|
|
|
Post by skeptomatic on Oct 13, 2006 10:44:46 GMT
Not true. I just finished watching Dead Famous.  And here's something that will make you laugh - have a chuckle at my expense. I certainly laugh at me! Over two years ago I started collecting this weekly publication called Mind Body Spirit which looks at all things paranormal, spiritual, new age - from reiki to chrystals to ghosts to wicca and everything in between. About half way through I decided I didn't believe in any of it any more - which is sad. Saying goodbye to your old beliefs is sad, but when you face the fact that none of it makes sense to you anymore, it's silly to hold on. Anyhow, originally there were supposed to be about 100 issues in the set. It got to 100 and they decided to go to 160. Then at 160, they decided to go to 200! Meanwhile, at about issue 180, my bookshelves are groaning under the weight of these magazines and the 'free gifts' that go with them, including tarot cards, crystals (I love rocks so I'm keeping them), spell-casting paraphernalia, insence, rune stones - the works. And I keep collecting them. Why? Because (clutching at straws) I figure I'll sell the whole lot on Ebay (except the crystals!) when I have the full set (although I doubt my conscience would let me). But still I'd be making a loss and the postage to anywhere outside my city would be horrendous! Or I tell myself that I'll donate them to some skeptic group's library. But I read the damned things as I put them in their folders, and I shake my head at most of them. My newsagent and I think it's hilarious that they keep extending the set. If they go beyond 200 I will seriously scream. Sometime enough has to be enough. And I've noticed the publishers have just started the whole set again from issue 1. I bet it is their biggest money-spinner ever in those weekly issue sets. You don't seem to understand Low Rider that I did not wake up one morning and say, 'Today I've decided not to believe.' Skepticism in one such as me, who was brought up in a strict Christian family and then dabbled with new age beliefs, did not just happened. It developed through listening, reading, investigating and thinking. My opinions are not just off the top of my head. I have really thought about what I don't believe in, and why I don't believe it. |
|
|
|
Post by Kim on Oct 13, 2006 10:48:25 GMT
Sceptics do not contest this. All they are saying is, just because something is unexplained YET, does not mean it had a paranormal cause. Believers take the other path; if something happens they cannot explain, they take this MASSIVE leap and assume that it is caused by the paranormal. I am aware of this. However the definition of paranormal is something that defies the known laws of science. Since science is evolving all the time and at the present time of any said phenomena is reported as unknown how can anyone say that is was not paranormal. We are constantly learning, scientisits are forever researching, so to dismiss everything out of hand just because some bod in a white coat hasn't produced a test for it is a little lax! It is all too easy to push peoples experiences aside and poo poo them. Before I dig myself any deeper, I would just like to say, that I am neither a believer or a non believer. I am happy with where I am at, and I am open enough to listen to someone without casting aspersions. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Oct 13, 2006 11:04:23 GMT
So... Spiritualism? "A manipulative form of berevement counselling given by an egotistic powered so called medium under the umberella of religion" I might have to make that my Sig |
|
|
|
Post by Kim on Oct 13, 2006 11:06:31 GMT
So... Spiritualism? "A manipulative form of berevement counselling given by an egotistic powered so called medium under the umberella of religion" I might have to make that my Sig |
|
|
|
Post by mamagpi on Oct 13, 2006 11:40:43 GMT
So... Spiritualism? "A manipulative form of berevement counselling given by an egotistic powered so called medium under the umberella of religion" and when did spiritualism became a form of breavement counselling ?? you must know something I dont, I have never been to a spiritualist yet that has offered counselling and they dont claim to be counsellors either and if they are part of the SNU they dont agree with counselling !! |
|
|
|
Post by calamitykate on Oct 13, 2006 11:50:22 GMT
Why do they not believe in counselling?
|
|
|
|
Post by mamagpi on Oct 13, 2006 11:54:56 GMT
that is the answer i would like too, and that is the SNU's opinion not the opinion of many mediums, 99% of mediums agree with seeing bereavement counsellors and trying to come to terms with a loved ones passing, before trying to get messegs from them.
|
|
