So every name that is given is automatically classified as a fraud???
No, that thread would be entitled "tell me the name of a fake medium" and I should imagine it would go on for pages and pages. The thread is asking for a REAL medium. I think you misunderstand a few of us on here, we do not WANT to label every medium a fraud, that would make us non believers, I am a sceptic, and one who would change his views in an instant should I be presented with a "real" medium. What we would desperately like is for a real one to come forward!
Accusations are really flying everywhere. I find myself not entirely agreeing with any of the above ;D
First of all the post in question from Whitewolf is as clear as mud; it's an amusing constant that mediums are just as ambigious in debates as in readings The post can be intepreted either in Jon or Chenanne's way; in this sense, Jon is right, only Whitewolf can tell us the true meaning of what he is said.
However, Whitewolf certainly hasn't said enough to hang himself. Even if Jon's intepretation is spot on I think it is reasonable for people to hold the view -- without incriminating themselves -- that some people calling themselves mediums, without any supernatural ability, do good for their clients. I'm playing the devil's advocate here because I hate the very thought of anybody paying for such a service, but nevertheless it doesn't mean the person with this opinion is a liar, and a fraud, with a cold heart...
I disagree with Whitewolf and Longnutts for saying Jon is out to ruin the good work of mediums. He has very honestly told us what motivates him to seek the truth about the paranormal and why. I'd like to take the opportunity to say I think he does a fantastic job exposing these paranormal frauds
Accusations are really flying everywhere. I find myself not entirely agreeing with any of the above ;D
First of all the post in question from Whitewolf is as clear as mud; it's an amusing constant that mediums are just as ambigious in debates as in readings The post can be intepreted either in Jon or Chenanne's way; in this sense, Jon is right, only Whitewolf can tell us the true meaning of what he is said.
However, Whitewolf certainly hasn't said enough to hang himself. Even if Jon's intepretation is spot on I think it is reasonable for people to hold the view -- without incriminating themselves -- that some people calling themselves mediums, without any supernatural ability, do good for their clients. I'm playing the devil's advocate here because I hate the very thought of anybody paying for such a service, but nevertheless it doesn't mean the person with this opinion is a liar, and a fraud, with a cold heart...
I disagree with Whitewolf and Longnutts for saying Jon is out to ruin the good work of mediums. He has very honestly told us what motivates him to seek the truth about the paranormal and why. I'd like to take the opportunity to say I think he does a fantastic job exposing these paranormal frauds
[Can I point you in the direction of another thread "Tell me the name of a real medium" 13 pages, yes 13, and nobody can.
Do you really think the title of that thread was genuine? I don't. It was Jons usual manner of asking a question that he reckons he already knows the answer to.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 10:36:30 GMT
longnutts said:
cheyanne71 is right, I couldn't agree more. And it is so true that you, Jon, are trying to destroy the good work that true mediums/psychics do. Again you tar every medium with same brush, you don't have the right to do that. Frauds have committed what I call 'character assination' on true mediums, simply making them seem like frauds like they are. There are two kinds, True mediums and Fraudulant mediums!
I am not trying to destroy the good work of real mediums, if I could find a real medium i would champion their good work.
Ask yourself something, what have "real" mediums ever done to rid THEIR industry of the fakes?
Why hasnt a single real medium in current times come out and exposed a fake one?
Every interview with a famous medium, including Gordon Smith, they have always claimed they know of the frauds, yet they dont do anything, i wonder why
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 10:40:14 GMT
First of all the post in question from Whitewolf is as clear as mud; it's an amusing constant that mediums are just as ambigious in debates as in readings The post can be intepreted either in Jon or Chenanne's way; in this sense, Jon is right, only Whitewolf can tell us the true meaning of what he is said.
I would say that he is trying to think of a way out of what he said right now. Afterall he keeps logging on to read posts, even though he supposedly left the forum a few days ago.
However, Whitewolf certainly hasn't said enough to hang himself.
He was damn close though
Even if Jon's intepretation is spot on I think it is reasonable for people to hold the view -- without incriminating themselves -- that some people calling themselves mediums, without any supernatural ability, do good for their clients.
I can accept that, and Ihave debated with people before for this very justification. Personally i am against this justification and i find it worse than greed.
I disagree with Whitewolf and Longnutts for saying Jon is out to ruin the good work of mediums. He has very honestly told us what motivates him to seek the truth about the paranormal and why. I'd like to take the opportunity to say I think he does a fantastic job exposing these paranormal frauds
Thank you, I do my best, and i rely heavily on the people on this forum for help, motivation and advice.
I would be curious to hear the name of a medium who i ruined the good work of?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 15:49:56 GMT
Ok Jon, I can see where you are coming from now, I do apologise for saying you are setting out to destroy the good work of true mediums...etc.
Thanks for the apology. I know sometimes it can be easy to jump on the bandwagon against me, and align yourself with other claimed mediums, but as anyone who has ever bothered to know me has found out, what i do is in fact to the betterment of REAL mediums out there
I have myself wondered why mediums don't help to rid of the frauds, some say "Spirit tell us not to say a bad word on another 'medium', it's not spiritual." but it's spiritual to let them carry out their fraudulant acts???
Within spiritualist circles there is a code of honour, and unwritten rule. "No medium shall expose another"
I see it as almost like an honour amongst thieves.
I know as a medium myself, I know a fraud when I see one, they are so blatant,
How do you know a fraud, explain to me how you being a medium makes you able to spot frauds and their techniques?
I've been told I'm to work very differently to mediums now,
Curious, who told you this?
I consider exposing the frauds as one of my goals in this life,
Put your name and reputation on the line then, give me the names of mediums you know are frauds. Prove youare serious about what you do and what you claim, and prove you are serious about trying to rid the cancer within spiritualism right now.
I find it sickening that someone right now could be in the middle of being conned by a fraud.
How would you feel if that person being conned right now, were only at a medium because you had convinced them in the past?
Whether you are real or not, you must take responsibility for convincing someone of the afterlife, because without that belief they are not likely to want to see another medium for further communications with their dead relatives.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
This should be interesting But i agree i have sen fraud at churches. Now if i saw it i would say something,back then i had some but less knowledge. If nothing else i would hope it is unconscious fraud and they would see what i was telling them and work to improve as a genuine medium if they could.
I will not reveal the names of who told me the things I know as they're dear friends. It is rather simple how I can a fraud when I see one:
[glow=green,2300]True:[/glow] I see spirit people around the medium and know the things he/she comes out with are from the spirit people around him/her. [glow=red,2300]Fraud:[/glow] When I see a fraud, I see nothing around that 'medium'.
I know I'm a Spirit Medium, I see and hear spirit people, I haven't seen the afterlife, so I can't say it's there but yet again I come back to the fact I see and hear Spirits. I'm shown images of what my guide says is of the spirit world, in these images are buildings, all different kinds from different cultures yet in one place, this is all I'm shown so far. Being a medium wasn't something planned, I've only come on to my spiritual pathway since April of this year, and it has been an exciting journey for me. This time last year I was like you Jon, honest to God I didn't believe, but my views changed when earlier this year I started to see things, ignoring them at first, but then they got stronger and bigger, and then I heard voices, so I thought I was going insane, but they constantly assured me I was not going mad, since then I've seen spirit people and it has been amazing.
How do you know that the "spirit people" you are seeing round what you call a "true medium" are the same as what the medium is seeing? Have you ever compared notes, for instance writing down a description of the spirits without conferring?
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 19:30:30 GMT
I will not reveal the names of who told me the things I know as they're dear friends. It is rather simple how I can a fraud when I see one:
Aaaahhh, so it was people who told you and not spirit. How do you know that these people were not simply telling you what you wanted to hear, or what sounded nice?
[glow=green,2300]True:[/glow] I see spirit people around the medium and know the things he/she comes out with are from the spirit people around him/her. [glow=red,2300]Fraud:[/glow] When I see a fraud, I see nothing around that 'medium'.
Hmmmm, I am slightly doubtful of this ability, actually i am completely doubtful.
Even kendra, who i consider to be a very developed medium (if what she claims is true) has never come out with something like that.
I know I'm a Spirit Medium, I see and hear spirit people, I haven't seen the afterlife, so I can't say it's there but yet again I come back to the fact I see and hear Spirits.
You are very specific with your claims, too specific if anything. What you claim is extremely easy to prove, much easier than any other claim i have ever heard on this forum.
This time last year I was like you Jon, honest to God I didn't believe, but my views changed when earlier this year I started to see things, ignoring them at first, but then they got stronger and bigger, and then I heard voices, so I thought I was going insane, but they constantly assured me I was not going mad, since then I've seen spirit people and it has been amazing.
Hang on, so you thought you were going mad, but the spirits you were seeing told you you were not going mad, and you believed them? lol
Please understand i am not being rude, but what you are describing is the symptoms of a kind of psychosis.
Cani ask what your GP said after you told him you were seeing the spirits of dead people and that they were talking to you and telling you what to do?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
You know LR, only one medium in the time that BP has existed has ever stood up and told the truth about another medium.
Kendra!! The only one.
Sometimes i think Kendra has bigger balls than all the other mediums put together!
More down to her knowledge i would say Jon and her position in mediumship. I have on here slagged off mediums from TV but i am nowhere near the knowledge level of both mediumship and this countries mediums that Kendra has. Would you have me attack a medium if i did not have the correct knowledge and experience to know i was right in screaming fake?
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 22:45:05 GMT
More down to her knowledge i would say Jon and her position in mediumship.
I disagree. Kendra DOES have a higher knowledge of mediumship, probably than anyone else i know of. BUT she does not have a knowledge of how frauds work, well not until i taught her.
When she saw Simon Peters, and challenged him during a live show, she did so alone, that was how bad he was
But she doubted her own ability to spot a fraud, which is why I went with her to see him a few weeks later.
AMAZINGLY Kendra had to hold me down, after Simon Peters microphone picked up the secret feed he was getting in his ear.
I was ready to call him out right there and then, and bloody Kendra held me back.
Unfortunately our own secret recording didnt pick up the cock up, so we ended up with nothing, and we both wished i had spoke up at the moment it happened.
I have on here slagged off mediums from TV but i am nowhere near the knowledge level of both mediumship and this countries mediums that Kendra has.
Fair enough, I wouldnt expect you to anyway LR, as i dont class you as a working medium in any sense of the word.
Would you have me attack a medium if i did not have the correct knowledge and experience to know i was right in screaming fake?
Of course not. In fact i think you are not in the best place to expose a medium regardless of whether or not you are a medium.
I do believe that if we were able to interact on a personal level, that much like Kendra i would be able to show you some of the tricks and maybe open your eyes to how the frauds work.
And i dont mean that in as patronising a manner as it sounds either.
But i do have a better knowledge of how the fakes work for obvious reasons.
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 20, 2006 23:13:57 GMT
I know they are not of that nature, but other than the content of the messages, what is the difference?
And why havent you gone to see your gp who could reference youto a mental health specialist?
The things you are describing scare me to be honest, i have spent a lot of time with mediums, ones with years and years of experience, none have described what you have,.
I am worried for you,
aaarrrggghhh where is kendra when i need her.
Look i am a sceptic, so anything i say you will see as wrong. I will try and get Kendra on here so she can speak to you
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.