Post by Mr. Jon Donnis on Nov 8, 2006 14:12:40 GMT
Honey..if you are to believe in Jesus and are infact celebrating his supposed birth,then what goes with that is spirit communication from The Big G himself,
You dont mean George from rainbow do you?
Jesus resurrection,and his flying off to the heavenly realms not to mention the spiritual healing,miracles at a drop of a hat and so on.
Well I dont believe he did that then, andidont believe psychics and mediums an do it now.
If you celebrate this guys birth in any shape or form then you also have belief in the other events that-took place.
Says who? Whats wrong with celebrating the birth of some random normal person in history? It does not therefore follow you believe he was the son of god.
Regardless whether on 25th of December or not, if you believe he existed,he was born etc then the rest follows suit
Why? There is no doubt this MAN had a good message to pass on. Why not celebrate a man who wanted to improve society?
..and hey presto that would make you a hypocritical believer!
Not at all. Since you talk to the dead why dont you ask Jesus himself to confirm whether he is the son of god. Also have any of those dead people who talk to you mentioned the big G at all?
If you do not believe in J himself but quite willing to accept the trappings etc that go with this day, then you are benefiting in some way or another from something based upon a religious belief..and you call mediums con merchants ;D
Xmas is a commercial celebration, just like Mothers day. I see no difference, and i see no reason why people cant celebrate it.
Mediums ARE con merchants because they are directly influencing other peoples beliefs and taking money forthe privalage
As the great guy supposedly said himself "Before pointing out the splinter in another's eye,first remove the plank from thine own"
Now did he actually say that? His English mustve been good.
In fact Jesus most likely spoke Greek, did you know that?
A bad ass who will beat you like he's using the fists of god.
Like Jon said Kendra was just having a pop at the skeptics.Unfortunately she picked the wrong festival.
lol, not at all. I need little excuse to have a pop at the sceptics I can do that quite easily without the aid of a religous holiday to bring their hypocrisies to light
So why pick a "religious" holiday when you know full well that the majority of people in GB let alone the world regardless of their beleif system celebrate the day in some way shape or form?
I work with and I am freinds with people of many different beliefs Seik, muslim,jewish, buddhist, toaist agnostic and atheist who'll get together on Christmas day to have a meal with family and freinds perhaps exchange a few gifts and decorate thier house.
Does this negate their own belief system and make they hypocritical?
They certainly don't believe in Jesus as the son of god and the saviour of their eternal souls.
Perhaps they want to celebrate the message that Christmas is supposed to represent.After all Peace on earth good will toward men isn't ( or shouldn't be) rescricted to one religious doctorine or belief.
As for the thought that celebrating Chritmas means you Believe in Jesus.well as it's already been pointed out there has been a feast day around this time of year for thousands of years before the Roman Catholic church tagged it's feast day onto it.
"If you do not believe in J himself but quite willing to accept the trappings etc that go with this day, then you are benefiting in some way or another from something based upon a religious belief..and you call mediums con merchants "
I'm quite ready to accept the trappings and benefits of the written word. Can you guess what establishment was the major force responsible for it's preservation and spread across the western world? particularly during the dark and middle ages when the vast majority of the general populus where illiterate? Does my non belief in "J" mean i should stop reading and writing or be labelled a hypocrite?
(Ok writing maybe as my spelling and punctuation has been accused of systematically murdering the english language )
IMO you wanted to point a finger at all the skeptics on the board and go "oooh! look at them ,say one thing and do another Hypocrites!"
Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense Expressed in dollars and cents Pounds,shillings and pence.
I disagree Kendra, "If you celebrate this guys birth in any shape or form then you also have belief in the other events that-took place." I have a Christmas Tree,all the lights presents etc, but for me personally I dont view that day as a celebration of of Jesus being born, thats not what Im doing so that does not make me hypocrytical. If I was to send cards saying "Praise the Lord" and attend church services, then THAT would make me hypocrytical. There is no mention of celebrating religion in my household at Christmas (and if Christmas was only for the true believers in God then Clinton Cards would have closed down years ago.)
"Regardless whether on 25th of December or not, if you believe he existed,he was born etc then the rest follows suit.."
Not so, for example, I believe Derek Acorah exists for I have seen him, but that does NOT mean that I believe what his dedicated disciples say he can do nor what is written in his scriptures. If I were to send him a Birthday card, I would be celebrating his birth, it would not make me a believer in his abilities or claims.
I know why my four year old gets excited this time of year, and it has nothing to do with Jesus, unless, that it is, someone can come up with some proof he was a PowerRanger, then he might be interested. As he told me this morning, "Daddy, dont shop for it, Argos it". Happy Argosmas to one and all.
Kendra - I've got to say I am a little offended by your assumption that sceptics do not have any relegious beliefs. I know some are agnostic or atheists but I, like many others to believe in a loving God and celebrate the birth of a person who brought a wonderful message to Man. What I am a sceptic about/towards are the fraudulant claims and total ballony that eminates from so called psychics and mediums that claim to hear voices or receive messages from those that have passed away. I personally do not believe we (i.e. humans) can contact those who have died as they have gone to place way beyond anything so mundane as to enable any kind of communication (yes - if you like Heaven). It is not of this Earth. The fact that I have also experienced what some would describe as 'Paranorml' events in my life does not make me Psychic. I believe God is the intelligence behind our Universe but that universe does not include the mixing of two very different means of existance. I will celebrate Christmas, as will my Family but you will not persuade me that to do so, I would have to believe in all what you do!
A lot of the traditions of Christmas have absolutely nothing to do with christmas at all. The christmas tree has its roots in the "Green Man" mythology of pagan Europe, along with mistletoe and holly as they remained fertile or bore fruit during winter. To suggest that people marking christmas who aren't christian are hypocrites makes as much sense as saying that those who are christians are hypocrites for not believing in ancient religions but still using their symbolism.
More importantly for me - I think it's up to everyone to celebrate christmas however they please - or not at all. I think I'd much rather be seen as a hypocrite than have to get through the boring, bleak winter without a little joy or frivolity to cheer things up.
According to theologians, Jesus wasn't born on or near 25th December. They say it's much more likely he was born in late spring / early summer. Something to do with the fact that shepherds wouldn't be staying out with their flock through the night during winter-time. Also, 'christmas' was originally a pagan festival which was hijacked by christians when christianity first swept through Europe.
Now, having said all that, I think I should point out that I don't believe either Jesus or god ever existed, so it's all moot to me.
I don't celebrate christmas. I enjoy the winter holiday, give and receive gifts and cook turkey with all the trimmings. The family all get together and have a good time. Mind you, I do this at other times throughout the year too. Why limit good times to just once a year?
He that cannot reason is a fool; He that will not is a bigot; He that dare not is a slave.
According to theologians, Jesus wasn't born on or near 25th December. They say it's much more likely he was born in late spring / early summer. Something to do with the fact that shepherds wouldn't be staying out with their flock through the night during winter-time. Also, 'christmas' was originally a pagan festival which was hijacked by christians when christianity first swept through Europe.
Now, having said all that, I think I should point out that I don't believe either Jesus or god ever existed, so it's all moot to me.
I don't celebrate christmas. I enjoy the winter holiday, give and receive gifts and cook turkey with all the trimmings. The family all get together and have a good time. Mind you, I do this at other times throughout the year too. Why limit good times to just once a year?
Well said leahj, all Christian holidays were hijacked from the pagan celebration of Earth's cycle of seasons.
We always have a completely secular Christmas - it may be a little hypocritical to celebrate it as we're Atheists but at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with getting together with friends and family once a year to celebrate and have some fun.
Exactly. As we have a mix of beliefs in our house some celebrate christmas as a religious time and others,like me, see it as a time when the whole family can be together for the whole day which is a rarity. I always told my kids it was a time for them to appreciate family and friends as some dont have either. Now they have all left home (yipeee) christmas is a time we can all be together.
To be honest I think the whole idea of xmas is hypicritical, and this is my personal opinion.
I have watched my family over the years (and 90% of them are religious) nearly kill each other, disown on another, then come the wonderfull xmas time they are all forgiving, loving each other, but as soon as the new year is over they are back to fighting and arguing again....
The whole meaning of xmas, the meaning that we were taught in schools, has gone out the window, we are far to commercial now its all about who can buy the biggest present and spend the most money.
I celebrated xmas when my children were babies, because I didnt want them being missed out or ' different' from other kids, and now they have grown up they still celebrate xmas but its not for the religious side of it.
Why do we need this one day of the year to be nice to our friends and families, do they not exist the rest of the time ??
Post by fromtheotherside on Nov 9, 2006 10:35:54 GMT
amaris said:
leahj said:
According to theologians, Jesus wasn't born on or near 25th December. They say it's much more likely he was born in late spring / early summer. Something to do with the fact that shepherds wouldn't be staying out with their flock through the night during winter-time. Also, 'christmas' was originally a pagan festival which was hijacked by christians when christianity first swept through Europe.
Now, having said all that, I think I should point out that I don't believe either Jesus or god ever existed, so it's all moot to me.
I don't celebrate christmas. I enjoy the winter holiday, give and receive gifts and cook turkey with all the trimmings. The family all get together and have a good time. Mind you, I do this at other times throughout the year too. Why limit good times to just once a year?
Well said leahj, all Christian holidays were hijacked from the pagan celebration of Earth's cycle of seasons.
We all know where it stems from and why it was hijacked by the church to give their messiah credence and override any worship f pagan gods and festivals!Hence old churches majority built on sacred burial mounds and so on, yes we know this.
But many sceptics wil be celebrating Christmas..How the hell can you sit back recieve gifts and so on all in the spirit of christmas and erase Christ and what that figure stood for, and then stomp the toes dribbling that you dont believe in spirit etc etc...whilst unwrapping the Xbox your gran just gave you because it is CHRISTMAS!
Last Edit: Nov 9, 2006 10:37:05 GMT by fromtheotherside
We all know where it stems from and why it was hijacked by the church to give their messiah credence and override any worship f pagan gods and festivals!Hence old churches majority built on sacred burial mounds and so on, yes we know this.
But many sceptics wil be celebrating Christmas..How the hell can you sit back recieve gifts and so on all in the spirit of christmas and erase Christ and what that figure stood for, and then stomp the toes dribbling that you dont believe in spirit etc etc...whilst unwrapping the Xbox your gran just gave you because it is CHRISTMAS!
Well, hypocrite I may be but I am certainly not going to try to tell my children that we can't have a tree or presents this year because some woman on an internet site, who pretends to talk to dead people, disapproves
"Well, hypocrite I may be but I am certainly not going to try to tell my children that we can't have a tree or presents this year because some woman on an internet site, who pretends to talk to dead people, disapproves "
Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense Expressed in dollars and cents Pounds,shillings and pence.
We all know where it stems from and why it was hijacked by the church to give their messiah credence and override any worship f pagan gods and festivals!Hence old churches majority built on sacred burial mounds and so on, yes we know this.
Actually you'd be surprised how many people DON'T know that information!
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Christopher Hitchens
Post by fromtheotherside on Nov 9, 2006 14:40:11 GMT
calamitykate said:
fromtheotherside said:
We all know where it stems from and why it was hijacked by the church to give their messiah credence and override any worship f pagan gods and festivals!Hence old churches majority built on sacred burial mounds and so on, yes we know this.
But many sceptics wil be celebrating Christmas..How the hell can you sit back recieve gifts and so on all in the spirit of christmas and erase Christ and what that figure stood for, and then stomp the toes dribbling that you dont believe in spirit etc etc...whilst unwrapping the Xbox your gran just gave you because it is CHRISTMAS!
Well, hypocrite I may be but I am certainly not going to try to tell my children that we can't have a tree or presents this year because some woman on an internet site, who pretends to talk to dead people, disapproves
And yet you and others would revel in the possiblity of taking anothers belief and faith from them..enjoy ridiculing them for the very thing they hold dear to their hearts. You would do that, and others at a drop of a hat and feel nothing...all done because you simply do not approve!
And I am not just some woman! I am Kendra, a person, an individual, a mother,a wife ,a human being. What you teach your children etc is your choice, I really do not care. But you and others whilst telling your kids the story of christmas will look at your PC screen and attempt half hashed attempts at downing another for believing in something that you are celebrating iwth yoru children! I am so glad that you are proud to be a hypocrite..of course only when it suits you
To pretend is to know something is not real,the spirit world and spirit communication is very real to me..I do not pretend!
Last Edit: Nov 9, 2006 15:03:30 GMT by fromtheotherside
Post by fromtheotherside on Nov 9, 2006 14:45:46 GMT
amaris said:
fromtheotherside said:
We all know where it stems from and why it was hijacked by the church to give their messiah credence and override any worship f pagan gods and festivals!Hence old churches majority built on sacred burial mounds and so on, yes we know this.
Actually you'd be surprised how many people DON'T know that information!
Hmm true, sorry when I said we all...I should have remembered what forum I was on..I apologise
Last Edit: Nov 9, 2006 14:47:35 GMT by fromtheotherside
;D
